Poll

What improvements/changes would you like to see on MBS?

Store/Merch
0 (0%)
Livestream Podcast Recordings
1 (20%)
Additional Contests
1 (20%)
Other (Please Specify)
3 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closed: October 23, 2018, 12:19:39 pm

Author Topic: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests  (Read 2574 times)

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« on: September 03, 2018, 12:19:39 pm »
As we close in on three years for the MBS podcast, Greg and I figured it was time to solicit some more feedback from all of you for changes and additions you would like to see around the site and the podcast. Let us know what you are interested in! This poll will be running for 50 days, and you can vote for more than one option.

Dakkar

  • Rear Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1175
  • Number of Times Thanked: 25
  • Mobilis in Mobili
    • View Profile
Re: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2018, 02:56:50 pm »
Other:
Help me understand and answer this question: Why does it seem like every other tabletop game genre has entered a golden age with a wide variety to choose from BUT fleet-based games and spaceship games are worse off than ever? With the noted exception of X-Wing/Armada properties, why is there such a drought of quality and well-support professional games for fleet combats? Or does it just seem that way, since the LGS doesn't carry DROPFLEET, etc?
"History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark!"
-- Lord John Whorfin, Red Lectroid Leader

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2018, 08:35:35 pm »
Other:
Help me understand and answer this question: Why does it seem like every other tabletop game genre has entered a golden age with a wide variety to choose from BUT fleet-based games and spaceship games are worse off than ever? With the noted exception of X-Wing/Armada properties, why is there such a drought of quality and well-support professional games for fleet combats? Or does it just seem that way, since the LGS doesn't carry DROPFLEET, etc?

That’s a very provocative question (in a good way)! I would agree that naval gaming in general is at a nadir at the moment; even SW Armada seems like a distant second to X-wing. My theory is that naval fleet games in general, and space combat games in particular, have historically been a niche of the market, with a relatively small but dedicated fan base. Every so often, a game comes along that breaks out of that niche; Battlefleet Gothic was probably the biggest example, but you could also include Firestorm Armada (especially the 2.0 edition) in that category. Then, there are also games like B5 Wars that seem to have made big inroads with existing fans of the space combat genre, but didn’t have a major impact on the wider gaming audience. To me, that’s where DFC is sitting right now. So really, I think we have returned to a bit of a historical norm for naval games, where they are steaming along with their small but dedicated following.

The question is will the next naval game to break through into the “mainstream” be FSA 3.0 or the Heresy version of BFG that’s supposedly in the works?

KazadHarri

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Number of Times Thanked: 12
    • View Profile
Re: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2018, 11:20:02 am »
I voted for other, since I think your podcasts are better when you expand out of your comfort zone. (Star Wars, Dystopian Wars, etc)  Interviews and reviews with other folks to expand the depth of the podcast. 

Historical rule sets, WWI, Fighting Sail, and even WWII  are many and maybe a focus on those areas could be useful. 

/Jeff

Ljevid

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Number of Times Thanked: 3
    • View Profile
Re: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2018, 02:51:49 am »
Other:

Just an idea: Instead of trying to find something interesting to say about a simple number at the beginning of the podcast - why not transform the number of the podcast into an opportunity for some nval trivia.

Number 35 for example:

- Did you know that the development of radar equipment for the Royal Navy started in 1935?
- In 35 BC, Octavian conducts a rendezvous with the Roman fleet under Marcus Vipsanius, which is engaged in clearing the Dalmatian coast of piracy.
- "The Great Colonial Hurricane of 1635" struck New England which led to the demise of the 250 ton galleon Angel Gabriel. Luckily most  of the immigrants it carried were able to come ashore. One of them "John Cogswell" the immigrant ancestor to an astonishing number of notable americans, like John Quincy Adams, the sixth president of the U.S.

I think you get my point. If you include births and deaths as well the list becomes endless.

 I at least - am a sucker for some historical trivia  ;)







Landlubber

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Number of Times Thanked: 63
    • View Profile
Re: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2018, 11:28:54 pm »
Other:
Help me understand and answer this question: Why does it seem like every other tabletop game genre has entered a golden age with a wide variety to choose from BUT fleet-based games and spaceship games are worse off than ever? With the noted exception of X-Wing/Armada properties, why is there such a drought of quality and well-support professional games for fleet combats? Or does it just seem that way, since the LGS doesn't carry DROPFLEET, etc?

Dale, I wonder if it might also have to do with a lot of games moving to the "skirmish" setting. You can knock out a complete game of X-Wing in an hour (or less if, like me, you excel in losing starfighters). Guildball, Kill Team, Necromunda, ST: Attack Wing...these are all "quick" games. Fleet-scale games are certainly not. I love Dystopian Wars and Halo: Fleet Battles, but neither is a quick game. You could probably play 2-3 X-Wing matches (at 100 points per side) in the amount of time it takes to play a 1200-point Dystopian Wars game. There's also the added benefit of lower model count, meaning less stuff to prepare and less stuff to schlep to your gaming location.

I have to wonder too if naval wargames may seem "impersonal" to some gamers. You aren't looking at a squad of 5-10 people on the board, with faces and poses and individual weapons; you're looking at massive ships without much in the way of "personal" touch. I don't mind this at all, and obviously some others don't either--I like the thought of a crew of hundreds or thousands working inside the hull to sail and fight the ship, be it on water or in vacuum. But that may be a turn-off for some.

These are just my theories, and of course there are many exceptions to every rule.

@Ljevid, that's an interesting idea. I'm a big fan of historical trivia as well. Maybe this is something we can incorporate into the show!
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama

erloas

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Number of Times Thanked: 8
    • View Profile
Re: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2018, 11:02:46 pm »
Other:
Help me understand and answer this question: Why does it seem like every other tabletop game genre has entered a golden age with a wide variety to choose from BUT fleet-based games and spaceship games are worse off than ever? With the noted exception of X-Wing/Armada properties, why is there such a drought of quality and well-support professional games for fleet combats? Or does it just seem that way, since the LGS doesn't carry DROPFLEET, etc?
Board games have definitely had a renaissance, but I wouldn't say that is true for table top gaming otherwise.  Right now you have pretty much one choice for table top gaming, skirmish.  You can do a sci-fi skirmish, you can do a fantasy skirmish, you can do post-apocalypse, space, or cars, but it is all skirmish and that's it.  Not that I don't enjoy some of them, but that seems to be all there is.  It actually seems like they are trying to directly compete with board games, with light rulesets and short game times, usually with tactics and options taking a back seat.  I haven't been following table top RPGs too closely, but from a casual look that seems to be the general trend there too.


As for what to see more of... I'm not really sure.  Something to engage with and a reason to check back more frequently.  It is of course hard to know what people will actually engage with, but open ended topics to discuss would be what would work for me.  Or something new or obscure that I'm less likely to randomly come across on my own.

Ljevid

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Number of Times Thanked: 3
    • View Profile
Re: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2018, 07:30:16 am »
I have been thinking about your question again and revisited some of the older podcasts.

I think what I enjoyed the most in the past were the in depth interviews with game designers, representatives and so on.
Especially the episode with the author of the book about the battle of Midway was fascinating.

Things I didn’t enjoy that much were the in-depth rule discussions.

Don’t get me wrong: I like rule discussions, I like to hear about major differences and what sets a rule set apart from others.

That can be summed up as the “First Layer” of rules – but once you dive through the second, the third and the fourth layer – it becomes increasingly hard to follow.
It might have to do with the fact that I listen mostly during my daily commute/ while driving and so on – difficult to concentrate and with no chance for visual aids.

I enjoy the occasional battle report and insights into personal experiences + also negative ones. Have you ever tested a product you were sure to dislike to warn the community?

Well, that’s pretty much it.

Good job, looking forward to the next podcast   :D :D

Dakkar

  • Rear Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1175
  • Number of Times Thanked: 25
  • Mobilis in Mobili
    • View Profile
Re: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2018, 01:05:46 pm »
Some more thoughts ...

-- You've done a lot of rules discussion, how things are represented for better or worse. But I don't have particular recollection of Strategic and Tactical breakdowns in rules contexts, or even rules to reality comparisons. For example, you might discuss common Dystopian Wars carrier tactics and army-build strategies to exploit those; then contrast to real-world tactical and strategic analogs. And then wrap up with a discussion how you wish the rules would work. You did a lot of rules discussion on Carriers a while back, but I recall it feeling more survey in nature than a tactics deep dive.

-- More product news on Class B and lower stuff, and maybe looming Class A kickstarters. For example, until recently I didn't even process that GZG and FULL THRUST was still a thing, since its been ages since it was on shelves. What's up with hoary old Star Fleet Battles or SFB CTA?

-- Deeper revisit to classic systems of yesteryear: BABYLON 5 WARS, B5 CTA, FASA's TREK Tactical Simulator, the TOG line of games, and even revival stuff like OGRE (vaguely a naval aspect) . Talk about what worked for those games, what's most missed , etc. (and get guests if you don't know the systems yourselves)

-- Maybe branch out into Naval adjacent games like OGRE, the new Adeptus Titanicus, GASLANDS ... you could call the segment "Man and Machines"
"History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark!"
-- Lord John Whorfin, Red Lectroid Leader

RuleBritannia

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
  • Number of Times Thanked: 32
    • View Profile
Re: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2018, 06:57:44 am »
Maybe a series from the editors with a break on what makes a game naval, and what games have reflected that best and worst?  Could work through from age of sail of oar, Ironclads, Mechanised warfare, fantasy and the starry ocean.  Start with a historiography of why MBS exists and how gaming of naval settings has emerged.  As a Johnny come lately I can barely remember BFG, never saw Man O war, and hadn't heard of Ogre until it was mentioned here.

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: MBS Monthly Poll #28: Improvement Requests
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2018, 08:03:48 pm »
Some more thoughts ...

-- You've done a lot of rules discussion, how things are represented for better or worse. But I don't have particular recollection of Strategic and Tactical breakdowns in rules contexts, or even rules to reality comparisons. For example, you might discuss common Dystopian Wars carrier tactics and army-build strategies to exploit those; then contrast to real-world tactical and strategic analogs. And then wrap up with a discussion how you wish the rules would work. You did a lot of rules discussion on Carriers a while back, but I recall it feeling more survey in nature than a tactics deep dive.

Digging into game-specific discussions is something we've tossed around over the years. Part of the problem is that it seems like Landlubber and I are rarely playing the same games at the same time (I'll be on a FSA kick, he'll be playing DW, etc) so we often don't feel confident enough to talk tactics on any one particular game. Another issue recently is that, specifically for the form Spartan properties, we've decided to hold off until the WC re-release is completed. This is something I think both of us would still really like to do, though!

Quote
-- More product news on Class B and lower stuff, and maybe looming Class A kickstarters. For example, until recently I didn't even process that GZG and FULL THRUST was still a thing, since its been ages since it was on shelves. What's up with hoary old Star Fleet Battles or SFB CTA?

Sounds like a good idea to me!

Quote
-- Deeper revisit to classic systems of yesteryear: BABYLON 5 WARS, B5 CTA, FASA's TREK Tactical Simulator, the TOG line of games, and even revival stuff like OGRE (vaguely a naval aspect) . Talk about what worked for those games, what's most missed , etc. (and get guests if you don't know the systems yourselves)

Most of those would have to be done with guests, as I don't think that either Greg or me have much experience with any of those. Know anyone that would be willing to help? ;)

Quote
-- Maybe branch out into Naval adjacent games like OGRE, the new Adeptus Titanicus, GASLANDS ... you could call the segment "Man and Machines"

This is an intriguing idea, though I would be more inclined to do it as a spin-off show rather than as a segment within the MBS podcast.

Maybe a series from the editors with a break on what makes a game naval, and what games have reflected that best and worst?  Could work through from age of sail of oar, Ironclads, Mechanised warfare, fantasy and the starry ocean.  Start with a historiography of why MBS exists and how gaming of naval settings has emerged.  As a Johnny come lately I can barely remember BFG, never saw Man O war, and hadn't heard of Ogre until it was mentioned here.

This is an idea I've touched on a long time ago on the blog. I definitely wouldn't be opposed to discussing it again on the podcast!

http://www.manbattlestations.com/blog/2012/09/04/line-ahead-why-naval-gaming/


I have been thinking about your question again and revisited some of the older podcasts.

I think what I enjoyed the most in the past were the in depth interviews with game designers, representatives and so on.
Especially the episode with the author of the book about the battle of Midway was fascinating.

Interviews are fun! And we are definitely looking to do more of them in the future. They are always a challenge to coordinate, though, since we are always trying to coordinate across 2 or even 3 timezones to get them done!

Quote
Things I didn’t enjoy that much were the in-depth rule discussions.

Don’t get me wrong: I like rule discussions, I like to hear about major differences and what sets a rule set apart from others.

That can be summed up as the “First Layer” of rules – but once you dive through the second, the third and the fourth layer – it becomes increasingly hard to follow.
It might have to do with the fact that I listen mostly during my daily commute/ while driving and so on – difficult to concentrate and with no chance for visual aids.

Honestly, these aren't my favorite segments to prepare or record, either. They are pretty time-consuming to write and prepare, and I've always feared that listeners would find them a bit overwhelming to listen to. It's something that we'll have to take a look at in the future to see if we can strike a balance between too little or too much detail.

Quote
I enjoy the occasional battle report and insights into personal experiences + also negative ones. Have you ever tested a product you were sure to dislike to warn the community?

Well, we mostly stick to discussing things that we have enjoyed as we find that more interesting to talk about. I think we've been open whenever we had issues with specific products or manufacturers, but we haven't gone out of our way to find things we knew we would actively dislike, and I don't see that changing in the future ;)