Author Topic: ROGUE ONE  (Read 3252 times)

Dakkar

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ROGUE ONE
« on: December 21, 2016, 03:46:32 pm »
Before I use Spoiler block, if you haven't seen it yet, why the heck not?!?

GO NOW. I'd place it a full quantum level of quality above TFA. Or as one critic said, best Star Wars film since 1980.

On to details

[spoiler]

This film has me wanting to play ARMADA and X-Wing more that anything short of REBELS has inspired in years. ARMADA in particular seems a foregone conclusion ... How long til we see "The hammerhead maneuver" as a card? ;-)

The Shield Gate scenario is an awesome one, and I'll be noodling on that. It reminds me of a Bab5 jump-gate scenario I ran once, which in turn was inspired by one of the Honor Harrington book scenarios.

With the new ships here, I see a year's worth of release schedule for X-Wing and Armada both.

The one ship that looked cool, but is ridiculous in hindsight has to be the Mon Calamari "Giant Keel" Cruiser. Why, oh why, would you extend your Bridge out on a giant boom from the main hull, and then encase it in glass? Sure, it's great for looking down at the planet for no useful tactical reason... but damn, I kept waiting for Vader's ship to slice that thing clean off.

Also, maybe its just me, but even a tiny Frigate accelerating to lightspeed should punch a massive kinetic hole in a Star Destroyer suddenly in its path...

[/spoiler]
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zorper

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2016, 09:41:52 pm »
+1 for best since Empire.

Ruckdog

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2016, 05:51:32 pm »
I finally got to see it on Monday night! Wow, what a great movie. Spoiler talk below:

[spoiler]
-I really liked how all the main characters were killed at the end (sort of an odd thing to say, I know). This movie didn't pull any punches in that regard, which surprised me (in a good way!).
-It's a amazing to me how well they tied this movie to A New Hope, and how much this movie actually strengthens the plot of of that movie without changing it at all.
-Dale, I agree the final space battle was an amazing spectacle. There was a lot to take in there; I'll have to watch it over several times on Blu-ray I think to really absorb it all! I've heard that apparently the Ghost from Rebels was in the background somewhere during that battle![/spoiler]

All in all, if Rogue One is an indication of how these single-story Star Wars movies are going to be done, we are in for some great flicks in the future.

Landlubber

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2016, 10:46:07 pm »
Saw it on opening night--really liked it. Saw it the day after Christmas--liked it even more. The last 30 minutes are probably the best Star Wars I've seen yet.

I would say it's my second-favorite of the franchise thus far, after Return of the Jedi. I know, I know, but I have an emotional connection to that movie--first movie I can remember seeing in the theater. Just me and my dad. But it's a very, very strong second.

For those of you who haven't seen it yet, get thee to the theater! It's well worth the price of admission.

[spoiler]

@Dale, agreed on all counts except for the Mon Calamari ship design and the frigate crashing into the Star Destroyer. The only answer to both of those complaints that I have, however, is because Star Wars.

@Ruckdog, yeah, killing everyone on the team was I think the right move (and a bold move given that this was a Disney movie, after all). It takes care of any "where are these people in Ep 4?" questions. Plus, I have to think that the team pretty much knew they were on a one-way mission. I mean yeah, they had an escape plan, but I think they all knew it was a real longshot that they'd get off Scarif. Shows how desperate the mission was.

The tie-ins to Ep 4 were nice--I liked the in-cockpit footage of Red and Gold Leaders. Fits in the timeline as well. The easter eggs were great--did anyone else notice the pitcher of bantha milk in the Erso kitchen at the beginning of the movie? The CGI face for Peter Cushing (Tarkin) was a little disturbing at first, but ultimately I think they pulled it off. Same with Leia at the end.

Speaking of the end...holy crap. Darth ****ing Vader. I think people have forgotten how ruthless he was (especially at this point in the timeline). That 10-15 seconds of him walking down the corridor of that ship were INTENSE. Especially stabbing that guy at the end through the chest and through the door in front of him. People in our theater were cheering at that scene and the scene where he choked Krennic.

Not sure if the Ghost was in the final space battle, but it was visible on the ground at the Rebel base in an overhead shot--just for a second. Also, at one point in the Rebel base, you here a page over the announcer calling for "General Syndullah" to report to the briefing room. This could be Hera, the Ghost's pilot.

Technical question for you all: how is it that the snowspeeders in Empire Strikes Back were not able to damage the AT-ATs with their main guns, but the X-Wings were able to tear them up in this movie? I have two theories: 1) the X-Wing has more powerful laser cannons and they just hit harder; or 2) these were a more lightly armored variant of AT-AT that was more susceptible to blaster fire--they were in tropical environment, after all. (It would make sense that the Empire employed several variants of the AT-AT, much like the US Army has several variants of the Stryker combat vehicle). Interested to hear what you all think.
[/spoiler]
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Dakkar

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 12:40:24 pm »
Comments below
[spoiler]

Also, at one point in the Rebel base, you here a page over the announcer calling for "General Syndullah" to report to the briefing room. This could be Hera, the Ghost's pilot.

Likely her, though could still be her father. Then again, I'm behind on REBELS

I caught that only in my second viewing. It brings the cameos I know of up to 14
Vader
Leia
Tarkin
R2
Threepio
Captain Antilles
Bail Organa
Mon Mothma
The Ghost
"General Syndulla"
Red Leader
Gold Leader
Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba


Quote
Technical question for you all: how is it that the snowspeeders in Empire Strikes Back were not able to damage the AT-ATs with their main guns, but the X-Wings were able to tear them up in this movie? I have two theories: 1) the X-Wing has more powerful laser cannons and they just hit harder;

This. More discussion here:
http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/29242/why-didnt-the-rebels-on-hoth-use-x-wings-to-fight-at-ats

X-Wings are designed to put dents in Star Destroyers, and do apparently have heavier guns. They just suck in the wet cold atmo for extended use, and/or they needed every fighter on Hoth for Transport escort.

The new ships that immediately come to mind for games are:

The TIE Striker
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE/sk_x1_experimental_air_superiority_fighter

The U-Wing
The T-3C Shuttle
http://screenrant.com/star-wars-rogue-one-guide-trivia-ships-vehicles-uwing/?view=all

The AT-AT's were apparently AT-ACT's too ...not as much armor.

And the heavier shuttle they stole is a Zeta-Class cargo shuttle
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zeta-class_cargo_shuttle

All those, plus yes, Armada needs to add the Mon-Calamari pontoon cruiser :-) Why have good design when you can have awesome shields. (On second viewing, they took extended fire from TWO Star Destroyers and multiple fighter runs, and were still only down to 50%. Only Vader's arrival in a full Imperial Class managed a disabling shot.)

At this rate, with a movie per year, X-Wing and Armada should NEVER run out of releases :-)

Now we need a solid RPG update so folks can run a Force-Adept like Chirrut, or use whatever awesome gun it was that Baze had.
Heck...I may have to give the new RPG a whirl

[/spoiler]
"History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark!"
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Ryjak

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2016, 09:26:04 pm »
And now, for something completely different.

[spoiler]Did we watch the same movie?  Sure, I had fun, it's Star Wars, but as a film it was pretty meh.  Here's how I can tell.

- I can't remember any of the main characters names
- Only one character made jokes
- The Rebels felt like bigger dicks than the Imperials
- I didn't buy how the girl was able to not only called out the above, but also give a better rousing speech than a room full of politicians
- No way would a ship smaller than a Star Destroyer's engine be able to push a Star Destroyer so hard that it destroyed everything
- What happened to the 50+ Tie Fighters?
- And some other stuff I'm sure is bothering you.

On the plus side, I generally enjoyed the space combat at the end, and Vader wrecking face was pretty awesome.  It was brilliant to have it run straight into A New Hope, but it should have ended a bit sooner.[/spoiler]

Landlubber

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2016, 12:13:14 am »
Eh, different strokes for different folks.

But in the interest of healthy debate about Things That Are Not Real...  :P

[spoiler]

-The only two main characters whose names I had a hard time remembering were Chirrut and Baze. But on the second viewing, I noticed that they addressed each other by name pretty often--it was just hard to hear sometimes.

-I was ok with the lack of jokes...to me it wasn't a "jokey" movie. Which made K2SO's humor that much funnier.

-I dunno...destroying an entire city just to prove a weapon works (and probably dooming all life on the planet in the process) seems like a pretty dick move to me. And the Imperials did it TWICE...and one of those times was friendly fire!  ??? Plus, Tarkin basically jerking the Death Star out from under Krennic after the weapon test proved successful was also a pretty dick move.

-Jyn Erso gave a better speech because the script called for it.  :D But notice that it still didn't convince the individual "faction leaders" (if that's the right term) of the Alliance. It did, however, convince a small rag-tag band of...oops, wrong IP, sorry.  :-X

-I got the impression that the Hammerhead Corvette was designed specifically for that kind of maneuver. It certainly wasn't pushing it very fast, but it was fast enough. With the SD unable to do anything to counteract the corvette's push, I could see it plausible (in the Star Wars universe where starfighters fly like WW2 fighter aircraft) that the corvette could wreck those two SDs.

-I think that was WAY more than 50+ TIE fighters, but your point is well taken. They went to the same place that all the wreckage of that crashing SD went (which is to say, out of the script).

[/spoiler]

But that's just my $0.02.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 12:15:23 am by Landlubber »
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Quickdraw

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2017, 10:21:56 am »
I finally went to see. Best Star Wars since Empire Strikes back. I was not expecting much after the last one, and it completely changed my mind.

[spoiler]The space battle at the end was an incredible spectacle. That scenario is really cool, I was very impressed. That corvette pushing the star destroyer was amazing, I got a huge kick out of that. The X-Wings wrecking face on the planet was awesome, not to mention the Rebel operatives on the ground. In general the old Star Wars movies focus on the heroes, this one you really get a sense of the capabilities of your basic soldier. I thought it was great. The scene where that U-Wing flys a straffing run on the AT-AT and cripples its knee with a door gun was also a favorite of mine. It made me think about playing some kind of ground attack mission with X-Wing.

All of the cameos were fun but not gratuitous. The only one that made me think was the two thugs on Jedha that eventually run into Obi Wan and Luke on Tattoine. I guess we can assume they some how made it off of the planet before the city was destroyed...

I have one other thought. We saw a lot of strange Tie Fighter variants and some new rebel capital ships, a lot of which are obviously not concurrent in the later movies. However, we didn't get a sense of what they are or what their capabilities were. Do you think that new ship designs like that were thrown in to provide material for merchandise such as X-Wing and Armada. I'm wondering how close that relationship is. Fantasy Flight is a big enough company that I wouldn't be surprised if it's the case.

Overall I thought it was a great movie. The characters were well developed, the story was solid and really brought it back to A New Hope, the entertainment was great (a lot of the characters had a fantastic snarky and dark sense of humor which worked with the ending of the movie), and the action was so much fun.[/spoiler]

Dakkar

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2017, 11:25:25 am »
[spoiler]
I saw some articles on the new designs, and why they're not seen in "later" films.

The U-Wing was a new design run before the company is nationalized by the Empire, and Bail Organa snagged most of them for the Rebellion. They used up all Yavin had in the battle of Scarif, and the rest were on Alderaan...

The Mon-Cal ships are actually "broken off" neighborhoods from their space-borne cities. So many designs are totally unique.

The TIE Striker was likewise mostly deployed on Scarif (including their design plans), one of Krennic's side-projects, and got destroyed by the Death Star.

Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba were on Jedha because Evezan creates the horrific slaves known as The Decraniated. They were headed for the port to get off-world, away from authorities, when Jyn bumped into them.
http://uproxx.com/hitfix/star-wars-tatooine-jedha/


[/spoiler]
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Landlubber

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2017, 09:40:16 pm »
Dale, that is some super Star Wars sleuthing.

Quickdraw, it's funny, I thought the same thing about the "new" (technically old, I guess) TIEs and the Rebel ships. And then I thought, dang, I'm getting jaded!  ???  The U-Wing and the TIE variant (the Striker, I believe) are already included in the next wave of ships for X-Wing. So I'd be surprised if we don't see the capital ships included in SW: Armada.

The discussion we've been having here got me thinking about Star Wars novels, and I know there was a lead up to Rogue One, so I went over to Amazon to check things out. Not only is there a prequel novel for the movie, but there is also a book based on the Rogue One movie. Most of the reviewers said it's actually pretty good and helps fill in some of the scenes in the movie, as well as providing a little background on some of the characters. One reviewer suggested reading Tarkin and Rogue One: Catalyst, both by James Luceno, then the Rogue One book as a sort of unofficial "Death Star" trilogy. The Catalyst book apparently deals alot with Krennic and his relationship to the Erso family, not just Galen. Will have to add these to my reading pile this year, probably after Catalyst and Rogue One are available in paperback.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Tarkin-James-Luceno/dp/0553392905/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483583939&sr=8-1&keywords=tarkin

https://www.amazon.com/Catalyst-Star-Wars-Rogue-Novel/dp/0345511492/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483583958&sr=8-1&keywords=rogue+one+catalyst

https://www.amazon.com/Rogue-One-Star-Wars-Story/dp/0399178457/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0399178457&pd_rd_r=R1HEM26MQTBJN2HWBM8V&pd_rd_w=QXAOU&pd_rd_wg=3ZKfX&psc=1&refRID=R1HEM26MQTBJN2HWBM8V
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Dakkar

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2017, 12:30:11 am »
TARKIN is on my reading list right after the latest Honorverse book ... or maybe before :-)
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Ruckdog

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2017, 08:57:34 am »
 
Dale, that is some super Star Wars sleuthing.

Quickdraw, it's funny, I thought the same thing about the "new" (technically old, I guess) TIEs and the Rebel ships. And then I thought, dang, I'm getting jaded!  ???  The U-Wing and the TIE variant (the Striker, I believe) are already included in the next wave of ships for X-Wing. So I'd be surprised if we don't see the capital ships included in SW: Armada.

The discussion we've been having here got me thinking about Star Wars novels, and I know there was a lead up to Rogue One, so I went over to Amazon to check things out. Not only is there a prequel novel for the movie, but there is also a book based on the Rogue One movie. Most of the reviewers said it's actually pretty good and helps fill in some of the scenes in the movie, as well as providing a little background on some of the characters. One reviewer suggested reading Tarkin and Rogue One: Catalyst, both by James Luceno, then the Rogue One book as a sort of unofficial "Death Star" trilogy. The Catalyst book apparently deals alot with Krennic and his relationship to the Erso family, not just Galen. Will have to add these to my reading pile this year, probably after Catalyst and Rogue One are available in paperback.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Tarkin-James-Luceno/dp/0553392905/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483583939&sr=8-1&keywords=tarkin

https://www.amazon.com/Catalyst-Star-Wars-Rogue-Novel/dp/0345511492/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483583958&sr=8-1&keywords=rogue+one+catalyst

https://www.amazon.com/Rogue-One-Star-Wars-Story/dp/0399178457/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0399178457&pd_rd_r=R1HEM26MQTBJN2HWBM8V&pd_rd_w=QXAOU&pd_rd_wg=3ZKfX&psc=1&refRID=R1HEM26MQTBJN2HWBM8V

I've been thinking about those same books! I've got a ton of credits saved up on Audible; maybe I'll see if there are audiobooks for any of those. Also, we may very well see the Rouge One fighters in SW Armada as well, in the next Rebel and Imperial fighters packs. However, I wonder which direction FFG will head in first; will they put out ships from The Force Awakens, or will they go with Rouge One? I can actually seem them going with the Rouge One ships first, as FFG has so far kept Armada centered around the time of the original trilogy.

Dakkar

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2017, 03:38:00 pm »
maybe I'll see if there are audiobooks for any of those.

All of them are there, IIRC

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Landlubber

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2017, 08:56:52 pm »
Yeah, I go back and forth about Audible. On the one hand, yeah, it's really convenient to listen to a book while driving, painting, doing the dishes, etc. But sometimes I have a hard time justifying spending $20+ on an audiobook when I can get the paperback version for seven or eight bucks.
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Dakkar

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Re: ROGUE ONE
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2017, 11:33:34 pm »
But sometimes I have a hard time justifying spending $20+ on an audiobook when I can get the paperback version for seven or eight bucks.

Without Audible, I'm reading a whole book over 2 months versus 1 month or less. And I think its like $16 for relatively new releases, versus $26+ for new hardbacks. I don't have the discipline to wait 6 months for the new Butcher, Weber, Salvatore, Gibson, Hearne, Abercrombie, Wexler, Evans, Stephenson, or SA Corey. :-)
"History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark!"
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