Poll

Will Shattered Void de-throne X-wing as the space fighter combat game of choice?

Yes! X-wing has run its course, and it's time for something new.
0 (0%)
No! The Force is not strong enough with Shattered Void
4 (100%)
Other (Please Explain)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closed: August 31, 2016, 05:01:35 pm

Author Topic: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void  (Read 2293 times)

Ruckdog

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MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« on: August 01, 2016, 05:01:35 pm »
It's time for this month's poll! Do you think Shattered Void, the space fighter combat game that has now successfully Kick-Started, has what it takes to overcome the X-Wing juggernaut? Please vote and let us know what you think below!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wdm/shattered-void-the-sci-fi-dogfighting-tabletop-war

Quickdraw

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2016, 05:28:37 pm »
Definitely not. I could leave the rest unsaid I think.

I backed shattered void, it looks neat, has a respectable looking rules system and will be a fun side project.

X-Wing has Star Wars...
And a huge following, a successful tournament scene, pre-painted models, the list goes on. Shattered Void will fill a niche for some of us, however, an X-Wing it is not.

Landlubber

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 12:25:16 am »
Yeah, I don't think it will for all the reasons Quickdraw brought up.

But that begs the question...how long will X-Wing be the premier tabletop starfighter combat game? It's been going strong for, what, 4 years now I think, and shows no signs of slowing down. If nothing else, Shattered Void lacks the sheer presence of X-Wing. I mean, you can buy the X-Wing core set and all the expansions at Barnes and Noble! I doubt Shattered Void will ever gain that level of recognition.

So what would it take to dethrone X-Wing? Or to at least share the spotlight with it? X-Wing has a very strong and very recognizable IP behind it, plus it has beautifully pre-painted miniatures and a ruleset that can be taught in ten minutes flat. Can anything compete with that? It will be interesting to see!
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Ryjak

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2016, 06:05:46 am »
Even if Shattered Void is a far superior game system, it doesn't stand a chance against X-Wing.  Look at Warhammer 40k; tons of people still play it, mostly because tons of people still play it.

Also, X-Wing is doing the same thing Magic The Gathering has done for years: fostering a strong community with planned events.  Have you looked at what FFG does for their World Championships?  While the prize purse isn't amazing, they are flying the best players in to participate.

Dakkar

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2016, 05:01:04 pm »
Dittos to what everyone else has said. Its a tough enough market without trying to sell your original IP that no one knows, and lacks obvious hooks (nothing special or interesting from what I can see).
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Landlubber

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2016, 05:20:53 pm »
@Ryjak, yes, I think there is something to be said for inertia. I think part of that might also be the thought process of "well, I've dumped X amount of dollars into this game, I might as well continue to play it"...I've heard that argument from some 40k players. Which makes sense, I suppose.

@Dale, not that I'm trying to defend Shattered Void as I still haven't played it, but to me one of the hooks was that it ISN'T X-Wing. I really enjoy X-Wing, but there are other ways to do starfighter combat.

But I'll reiterate my question from earlier: how long will X-Wing be at the top of the heap? They've had no serious contenders, and they have an admittedly strong IP and good mechanics. But their next release (Wave 10, I think) is Kylo Ren's shuttle, the Quadjumper (the ship that got blown up on the ground on Jakku in Episode 7, when Rey and Finn were trying to escape), and Sabine's TIE fighter from Star Wars Rebels. They've put out some cool ships, but it kinda feels like they're getting towards the bottom of the barrel.

But hey, what do I know?  :P
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama

Quickdraw

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2016, 06:15:47 pm »
@Ryjak, yes, I think there is something to be said for inertia. I think part of that might also be the thought process of "well, I've dumped X amount of dollars into this game, I might as well continue to play it"...I've heard that argument from some 40k players. Which makes sense, I suppose.

@Dale, not that I'm trying to defend Shattered Void as I still haven't played it, but to me one of the hooks was that it ISN'T X-Wing. I really enjoy X-Wing, but there are other ways to do starfighter combat.

But I'll reiterate my question from earlier: how long will X-Wing be at the top of the heap? They've had no serious contenders, and they have an admittedly strong IP and good mechanics. But their next release (Wave 10, I think) is Kylo Ren's shuttle, the Quadjumper (the ship that got blown up on the ground on Jakku in Episode 7, when Rey and Finn were trying to escape), and Sabine's TIE fighter from Star Wars Rebels. They've put out some cool ships, but it kinda feels like they're getting towards the bottom of the barrel.

But hey, what do I know?  :P

I think X-Wing could conceivably go on indefinitely. It's like Magic the Gathering for tabletop gamers. Everyone could or does get into it at some point (not just the dorks in the corner of the lunchroom). They still have a wealth of spaceships to use from the expanded universe, not to mention the fact that Star Wars has new movies and the backing of Disney. And they can continue to produce rare and one off cards for events which will appease the collectors out there.
I have a feeling that we will see them farming SW 1, 2, and 3 ships more and more by putting the "rebels found a bunch of old ships and are using them" label on them to.

What will truly make it last forever beyond any competitor though is the game/production design. In reality nobody on the hardcore X-Wing scene cares about the spaceships anyways. It's all about the cards baby. As long as they continue to produce cool cards that do slightly different things they can continue to fuel the game. With that said they will likely go back and reproduce a number of the ships that they have already made with different paint jobs. We've seen this done quite a bit already. If a competitor was to come challenge that they would probably focus on "the pay to win because of a card sucks" complaint and go in the opposite direction like King's of War has tried to do with Warhammer (before Warhammer imploded of course). Would they take away X-Wing fans? Probably some, but in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't be enough to dethrone the competitive X-Wing craze which again, is all driven by the cards.

Dakkar

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2016, 08:41:04 pm »
but to me one of the hooks was that it ISN'T X-Wing. I really enjoy X-Wing, but there are other ways to do starfighter combat.

I meant hooks in the IP sense, but yeah, point taken. Having a different but still fun mechanic can do huge if properly handled. Witness Warmachine's growth out of GW's very long shadow. The foundation of that is the mechanics coupled with company attitude. But the extra spice, the extra closer was the steampunk-fantasy mix feel. NO ONE was doing that back then.

Bab5 is another good example. Their Sci fi when it came out was neither Star Wars nor Star Trek nor boring (for the most part). And with the added spice of political overtones and a meta-plot (which really weren't even DONE back then). But that difference of having something new to offer beside different names and vaguely different designs...THAT is what gets people in the door. Mechanics and game health/maintenance are what keeps them playing.

Quote
It's all about the cards baby. As long as they continue to produce cool cards that do slightly different things they can continue to fuel the game. With that said they will likely go back and reproduce a number of the ships that they have already made with different paint jobs. We've seen this done quite a bit already.

Competitive play is useful to get a game to a particular stature, like growth spurts when you're a teen. But past that point, its often a negative, driving away new players and creating negative play experiences for all levels (another thing we've seen with Warmachine). Regeneration becomes the better business model, not growth.
To address Greg's points too before I clarify, X-Wing has PLENTY of IP to explore still. They can totally mine the Clone Wars, and by extension, the prequels. And they'll do so. And there's even the Sith Empire stuff and Mandalore, etc, ...all there to produce ships and character cards from.  And that's before we even hit the fact that a Star Wars movie every year adds options from here til Underverse comes...
But at some point they have to hit the big fat reset button. They'll do repaints, yes, and probably update and rebalance cards when they do so. They might do yet another starter box set in the REBELS era.
But the biggie will be when they revamp the mechanics and start everybody back on page one. Sure, you'll shed veterans who just can't handle change...but (again as Warmachine proves) FAR more people will be overjoyed to have a BRAND NEW GAME to relearn from scratch, and soon to have doubles of every ship. :-) Or perhaps decks of just the card revamps to buy for their existing collection.
X-Wing is here for decades to come. SV? It's just a baby right now... so none can know.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 08:42:50 pm by Dalek Unz »
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Landlubber

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2016, 03:29:53 pm »
@Quickdraw, good point about the cards, I guess I don't tend to look at games in that light.

@Dale, +10 points for the obscure Underverse reference. I just saw that movie again a couple nights ago. Kinda fits in the "dumb but entertaining" category. Some good one-liners in that movie too. "Kill the Riddick!" or "I think it's a half gram heavy on the back end."
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Dakkar

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2016, 11:49:27 pm »
I still hope for a true Necromonger sequel ...

And now I'm thinking someone should do Necromonger ships.

"History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark!"
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Landlubber

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2016, 09:51:16 am »
I still hope for a true Necromonger sequel ...

And now I'm thinking someone should do Necromonger ships.

Those ships that looked like skyscrapers with giant faces on them? Yes please.

Agreed about the sequel, there was some material there that they could have expounded on. The sequel we actually got was TERRIBLE. (Not that Chronicles of Riddick was high art or anything, but it was at least very entertaining).

"I dunno, Toombs...this new crew feels a little skittish."
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Ryjak

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Re: MBS Monthly Poll #3: X-Wing Vs. Shattered Void
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2016, 06:58:47 am »
 To answer your question, Greg, The Star Wars IP is what will kill X-Wing.  Unlike 343 and spartan games, FFG does not have the ability to create new ships, and as you accurately pointed out, they are now scraping the bottom of the barrel for new models.  All competitive players will tell you they buy models for new cards; I don't see how X-Wing can stop selling models with the cards to keep the game going.  I expect what we will see are re-releases of all models with new paint schemes and new cards and pilots. While this might sustain the game for a while, I think eventually the game will run out of steam on its own.

To illustrate, if you froze X-Wing in its current state, how many people would be playing it in a few years?