Man Battlestations Forum
General => News and Rumors => Topic started by: Dakkar on August 25, 2017, 11:19:20 am
-
Today we have published a statement about the sad closure of our company.
Click here to see the statement
As we say in the statement, we regret any losses incurred by anyone associated with our company.
Throughout the years that we have traded, we have prided ourselves on the highest level of product quality and customer satisfaction. This has been delivered consistently and is evidenced though annual customer research. We are keen to hear from anyone who has an interest in acquiring either stock, assets or the business.
Please use the following contact address:
spartangames@mail.com
I can't read the actual statement from work, but it sounds pretty final.
I'm sad for the ENORMOUS Blazing Sun force I'd traded for back in April, and the Syndicate Art-Deco fleet I'd *just finally* started on after waiting years of going "I want a fleet of THOSE GUYS".
Hopefully there's enough die hard locals that the lot can sell for a small amount come the next Auction in January.
In a weird way, it's a relief - no more waiting on all the promising aspects of Spartan to finally get their crap together.
Maybe it was the HALo overextension. Maybe they heard a new Battlefleet Gothic was coming to crush what little market remained to them.
-
TTGN has the full statement. I can't get the Spartan website to load:
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/spartan-games-is-closing/
Here is the text:
The following statement is issued today, Friday 25th August 2017.
Following a prolonged period of challenging trading and despite the directors’ best efforts to manage through, Rebel Publishing Ltd was unable to continue to trade and the directors have taken the difficult decision to cease. All members of staff were made redundant.
The company, which traded as Spartan Games, is a Somerset, UK based provider of tabletop miniature games which include
Uncharted Seas, a fantasy naval combat game (now retired)
Firestorm Armada, an exciting space combat game featuring highly detailed starship models
Dystopian Legions, a game based in the world of Dystopian Wars using highly detailed 32mm scale figures and vehicles (now retired)
Dystopian Wars– an exciting journey in a Victorian sci-fi world encompassing naval combat, ground warfare and aerial combat.
Spartan Scenics – a range of detailed and easily assembled wargames terrain.
Rebel Publishing Ltd was formed in July 2002 and traded successfully for a number of years. Spartan Games was launched in 2008 and grew rapidly. However, the tabletop games market is challenging and has changed over recent years, and suppliers are predominantly a small number of large well-known names and several small, cottage industry, type businesses.
Initially the business outsourced production but following quality control and production management issues, manufacturing was moved in house between 2009 and 2011. Over this time and since, significant investment was made into machinery and infrastructure. The business also expanded to provide models for a well known video game, moving this into the tabletop games arena. However, significant new development costs, timing issues and the deflection of management time from the core games brands resulted in a significant trading loss for 2015/6. The business was able to continue to trade by raising additional finance and refocusing on core brands, and direct / online trading improved significantly. Results for 2016/17 were significantly improved.
However, despite this it continued to encounter challenging trading conditions and it became clear this month that the company could not continue to service its liabilities, particularly given the burden imposed by the amounts owing to finance companies.
The company was in the process of running a Kickstarter project to raise funds for expansion of one of its successful product lines. This was well supported and positive feedback on the new products was given showing the popularity of the product line and ongoing demand. However, this does not, unfortunately, provide the full range of success and resources needed to sustain the business.
In addition to challenging trading issues, one of the directors has suffered from a long period of poor health which became significantly more serious earlier this year and although now back in the business, requires ongoing treatment. That has inevitably taken a toll on the amount of time available to the business so, along with other challenges, has significantly contributed to this difficult decision.
The directors are extremely saddened by this decision and particularly regret any losses incurred by employees, customers, suppliers or other trading partners. The directors fully committed their time, energy and personal resources to effect a turnaround. Employees will receive redundancy payments through state funds and although efforts have been made to fulfil customer orders, it is hoped that anyone who does not receive their goods will be able to redeem their payments through their credit card or PayPal.
If customers have made a deposit or paid for goods or services by credit or debit card and the goods or services are not going to be received by the due date, they may be able to get their money back by claiming a refund from their card issuer. They should contact their card issuer as soon as possible. Further information including time limits that apply is available from the UK Cards Association: Credit and debit cards: A consumer guide. Similar schemes exist in other countries.
Throughout the years that Spartan Games has traded, it has prided itself on the highest level of product quality and customer satisfaction. This has been delivered consistently and is evidenced though annual customer research that the company has undertaken.
We would encourage anybody who may be interested in acquiring either stock, assets or the business to make contact as soon as possible. Spartan Games and its product lines have a strong reputation in its markets together with an asset base which may be of interest to a number of parties, and a variety of machinery in addition to Intellectual Property.
-
I'm sad because 90% of what I play is Spartan products. Now we'll never get to see all the models that were in the pipeline for Halo Ground Command (and of course the other games). Which is unfortunate, because the models for that game are great in and of themselves--I just finished painting my first Scorpion tank.
And I guess we're never going to see the models from last year's Dystopian Wars Kickstarter...
-
Sooo..... Halo killed Spartan Games!?!
I guess its time to hunt down all the models I want/need before they disappear from the shelves.
-
This is so sad now that I was getting back into Firestorm and had been thinking of getting into dystopian wars. No more large ship battles for me for awhile by the looks of it.
-
Sooo..... Halo killed Spartan Games!?!
I guess its time to hunt down all the models I want/need before they disappear from the shelves.
Not sure if it was Halo specifically, although that may have been a contributing factor. Probably several things behind the situation, I imagine.
Steamlord, there are other Fleet-based games out there...Dropfleet Commander, Star Wars Armada...
-
Oh well. I've tossed my DW Kickstarter into dispute with the CC Company and will watch various markets and sell off the painted and unpainted stuff over time. BFG still sells for between tolerable and good prices depending and so will DW , FSA and Halo. Some of the stuff they really lagged on such as Legions or Uncharted will be a bit harder to liquidate.
-
Reading between the lines, it sounds like Neil's health is a huge factor too. That's the risk with Mom & Pop operations ... if Pop gets sick, Mom will halt anything that might stress him.
If anyone's looking to stock up on models before they go OOP, IM me and we'll deal. I have Blazing Sun, Prussians, Syndicate, Relthoza, Relthoza Planetfall, and the HALO box contents.
-
We need a new repository of the PDF of rules and army lists
-
Yep. I'll put together a google drive folder and post it, I guess.
-
I'm sad because 90% of what I play is Spartan products. Now we'll never get to see all the models that were in the pipeline for Halo Ground Command (and of course the other games). Which is unfortunate, because the models for that game are great in and of themselves--I just finished painting my first Scorpion tank.
And I guess we're never going to see the models from last year's Dystopian Wars Kickstarter...
Some models exist. A few folks have gotten partial shipments. CDS G got his Prussians, for example.
-
By and by, if you see folks that are looking for a new forum home, MBS is here to support.
-
@Ruckdog--one can only hope!
-
Kickstarter was a canary
-
Yeah, though even if the campaign was sitting fully funded yesterday, it wouldn't have helped since Spartan wouldn't have seen a dime until the campaign ended.
-
I wonder if anyone will buy them out
-
Steamlord, there are other Fleet-based games out there...Dropfleet Commander, Star Wars Armada...
Unfortunately there's nothing quite like firestorm or dystopian wars on the market right now. I noticed they're asking for expressions of intrest in assets and stock, does anyone know if that's the only way to get hold of models now?
-
I only "big" company that I see that would buy them out is Warlord Games. Aside from Blood Skies, FSA & DW doesn't really seem to be part of their stable.
-
@Steamlord, agreed, that's what drew me to Spartan's game systems in the first place.
For those interested, as of right now, it looks like Game Kastle has some Spartan stock--if you're looking to round out fleets or whatever. I just ordered some Halo Fleet and Ground stuff from them.
https://www.gamekastle.com/online/index.php?m=list&v=360
-
I might look at picking up some things when they hit clearance, but I'm not sure. Sunk quite a bit into the KS so haven't been playing to spend much on anything else for quite a while, and now that I'm not even getting that... well it is just disappointing.
Was really wanting those LoC models just to paint.
I could see a very bad illness taking down a privately held company in the USA, though I thought the UK didn't have those problems.
But yeah, it just seemed like a perfect storm of the wrong things happening at the wrong time. Given that they even bothered to launch the FSA kickstarter and Neil's recent involvement in the forums makes me think they thought there was a way through their troubles but something else happened to end it. Unless maybe the FSA kickstarter was their attempt at showing a potential investor the strength of the brand and it failing to fund right away said "there is too much uncertainty in the market to give you a loan extension/more money/etc."
There was two people on the FB post that expressed interest in potentially buying the rights but there is no way to know how much legitimacy there is to that idea.
This could be my exit of the TT gaming scene. No way I'm going back to GW and 28mm infantry is just overdone for me. But there doesn't seem to be much of anything else out there.
-
This could be my exit of the TT gaming scene. No way I'm going back to GW and 28mm infantry is just overdone for me. But there doesn't seem to be much of anything else out there.
Same
I will play with what I have and just bought
-
A new update was just posted on the KS page:
Kickstarter
82
Update
Posted by Spartan Games (Creator)
To all backers of this project, we sincerely regret the recent announcement of the closure of our company and those impacted including people waiting for products from this project. We hope you understand that our priority yesterday was our staff and then getting a formal statement out to the market. That was shared, via email, with everyone on this project.
As explained in the statement, there are policies in place with payment providers around the world for goods that are not received. Please explore these as appropriate to your payment method and location.
Monday is a public holiday in the UK but on Tuesday we will review the status of the project and, if we are able, continue to ship products to backers. We have stock manufactured; we have softback and hardback rulebooks but are yet to receive personalised rulebooks. For those that have speculated that the demise of our printer may have been untrue, please search online for information about Wheatons Exeter in the UK to see that they did, indeed, close in June.
Those familiar with rules governing the operation of companies will realise that what happens next is now out of our hands and will be managed by others. On a practical point, we may have limited access to shipping services and we only have a very small skeleton staff now. However, you have our commitment as directors that we will do all we can to ship products but we are now directed by others.
Enquiries to the email address given on the announcement (spartangames@mail.com) will be handled as they come in but please bear with us and we manage many things in the coming days.
-
So it sounds as if there is some hope that we'll get at least some of our stuff. Funny, I just sent an email to that address last night asking them about this. Haven't heard back yet, of course, and I'm sure it'll be awhile before (if) I do. I've got plenty of FSA and RoF models, but it sure would be nice to get those new ones, especially since they'll likely be the last.
I've been following the two Halo game pages on Facebook--people are buying up whatever they can as fast as they can for both games. I wonder if that's happening for DW and FA as well? Although I think there were fewer models on the market for the Halo games than for the other two.
-
I may place an order and see what happens
-
Given the licensing costs, I would expect this means Halo is dead. It's not impossible someone might pick up DW and/or FSA as they are the more popular of the home-grown IP. Both ranges are very big, though, it's a lot to manage. The rest, I'd have a hard time seeing the math work out.
I'm actually thinking of getting going with the homebrew replacement ruleset for DW I've had kicking around in my head for a while. The line of models for DW is huge and they're pretty widely available, I would not be surprised at all to see projects like that showing up here and there, or maybe a community driven effort to clean up and maintain the existing Spartan rules. It's unusual, but look at Epic, it can happen.
-
I would imagine all of the Halo assets default to Microsoft instantly and it would be entirely up to them to sell them again if they see fit. Although I think some of the Halo models were contracted out because they were plastic and Spartan doesn't have the machinery to do in-house plastics.
The question of the value of the DW and FSA IP is pretty open. It clearly has a solid, if very niche, market and it doesn't have much for direct competition. But the thing about gaming systems is that most developers have way more ideas than they have the ability to make them (see Spartan...). So I would wonder what gaming company would buy someone else's dead baby when they have many ideas of their own that they haven't got out yet. A lot of the initial work is done, but it would be hard to put your own spin on the system without destroying what value the IP has, the existing players. Change it too much and it isn't the same game any more, but leaving it the same would make it harder to embrace it as a developer.
Just the ideas from fans on the forums you could see a dozen different direction the game could go if they had their say.
Of course you have some miniature makers, such as Reaper, who are really just in the business of making models and not having their own game systems. They make generic models in certain genres and let the players do what they will. There could be some value there for them.
I could also see someone like Catalyst Game Labs take it, they tried to make a game called Leviathans, which seems to be pretty much dead, but a similar theme. But it is hard to say if that would be a good direction or be at complete conflict.
As an aside to all of that, I would be interested in working through a community based set of rules and ORBATs. The main issue for me is that while I've got a pretty good idea of game theory and statistics and technical writing, but I just don't have anyone to play with so couldn't do much for actual playtesting.
-
This site should be mentioned in the response to spartan Facebook and kickstarter
-
The thing is besides the rules, which are workable as is
Is the progressively shrinking availability of models
-
I would imagine all of the Halo assets default to Microsoft instantly and it would be entirely up to them to sell them again if they see fit. Although I think some of the Halo models were contracted out because they were plastic and Spartan doesn't have the machinery to do in-house plastics.
I haven't seen the paperwork or anything, but usually, the moulds and models would be the property of Spartan Games, but you'd need the license to sell them. So anybody wanting to resurrect Halo would need to buy the designs/moulds/masters/stock from Spartan, and then sign a licensing deal with Microsoft, and wouldn't be able to do anything with the Spartan properties unless they had it. MS could always buy that stuff from Spartan and do it themselves but they obviously never would.
The question of the value of the DW and FSA IP is pretty open. It clearly has a solid, if very niche, market and it doesn't have much for direct competition. But the thing about gaming systems is that most developers have way more ideas than they have the ability to make them (see Spartan...). So I would wonder what gaming company would buy someone else's dead baby when they have many ideas of their own that they haven't got out yet. A lot of the initial work is done, but it would be hard to put your own spin on the system without destroying what value the IP has, the existing players. Change it too much and it isn't the same game any more, but leaving it the same would make it harder to embrace it as a developer.
There are a lot of companies who wouldn't mind adding those lines to their portfolio, but you'd need someone with enough heft to add a pretty extensive line, who also had lots of capacity and experience in resin casting, and has some money on hand. I'm not sure who fits that bill.
I think that rewriting the rules to go with the existing models is certainly possible. Warzone changed the rules and also the models, and I guess they're doing okay with it. As long as you have a well supported product, I would expect people who already have fleets on hand would probably mostly just roll with it.
I expect that an Epic style community rules revamp would be mostly the current ruleset with some tweaks and fixes, because that's the easiest thing to get everyone to agree on. I would want to start from scratch, myself, as the DW rules have a bunch of issues which are fundamental to the rule concepts (but that's just me).
-
There are a lot of companies who wouldn't mind adding those lines to their portfolio, but you'd need someone with enough heft to add a pretty extensive line, who also had lots of capacity and experience in resin casting, and has some money on hand. I'm not sure who fits that bill.
I think that rewriting the rules to go with the existing models is certainly possible. Warzone changed the rules and also the models, and I guess they're doing okay with it. As long as you have a well supported product, I would expect people who already have fleets on hand would probably mostly just roll with it.
I expect that an Epic style community rules revamp would be mostly the current ruleset with some tweaks and fixes, because that's the easiest thing to get everyone to agree on. I would want to start from scratch, myself, as the DW rules have a bunch of issues which are fundamental to the rule concepts (but that's just me).
Yeah, its really hard to guess what something like that would be worth. You could probably get a reasonable estimate on moulds just with a model count and they've got a sort of known cost. The CAD files are worth exactly what Spartan thinks they are worth, as are the rules, because they can't really have a "market" value. They've probably got a decent amount of capital in their shop to make everything, but chances are anyone wanting to buy the IP would already have the capability of making it. Not to say they wouldn't want more equipment to expand, but that all depends on their current capacity vs expected increase from picking up the new IPs.
In the end it probably mostly comes down to the creditors and what they think they can get out of it. Which could be anything from almost nothing to quite a lot.
As for community rules, I couldn't see starting from scratch as you're too likely to make the new rules so much different than current players (the only ones the IP is worth anything to) won't even see it as the same system. I think there are probably a few "cornerstone" ideas/designs that could be changed.
I'll start a thread in the DW section for what sort of ideas everyone has for a direction a community set of rules would take.
-
Would mantic be interested ?
They could also resurrect uncharted seas to go with their fantasy line
-
Would mantic be interested ?
They could also resurrect uncharted seas to go with their fantasy line
Mantic's thing is mostly inexpensive plastic. Do they do a lot of resin? They could probably make it work but they seem to have a lot of their own stuff going on right now. Anything's possible, though.
-
As for community rules, I couldn't see starting from scratch as you're too likely to make the new rules so much different than current players (the only ones the IP is worth anything to) won't even see it as the same system. I think there are probably a few "cornerstone" ideas/designs that could be changed.
For community rules, yup, absolutely. I think it would have to be based on the current rules, just refined and fixed and maintained going forward. That would be the best way to get the most people to buy into it, and would be the most likely to succeed in getting wide acceptance among the surviving player base, which would help keep the game in play. With a good community effort behind it, a game can last indefinitely without a publisher. Again, just look at Epic.
What I've been tinkering with is more of a ground-up redesign, which obviously would be a lot harder to get people to buy into, but I'd mostly be doing it for my own benefit anyway. If anybody else could use it, that'd be gravy.
No reason both can't coexist, of course.
-
Spartan Josh's last post is interesting too.
http://thewaygate.blogspot.com/2017/08/godspeed-old-friend.html
I hadn't followed forums in a while since they became blocked at work. Sounds like toxicity abounded, so glad I didn't.
I've never liked Alex Mann's angle on things anyways.
But what's the FFG angle that Josh alludes to? I don't get that.
In any event, a splintered fan base makes it less likely the IP sells. :-(
I've made a deal to sell my HALO. I'm boxing the rest up to reclaim foam space, and make it easier to move if deals arise. (PM me as always).
In the meantime, I'll play some last games as fate permits.
-
I'm pretty sure FFG doesn't stand for Fantasy Flight Games in this context. It's either a reference to the Facebook groups or the old FSA playtest group, I'd guess.
-
Wasn't there two Joshs at Spartan (as well as 2 Mikes) with one (of each) being FSA and the other being DW?
I didn't see a lot of hate and discontent in the DW section. There was one or two people that clearly had a rather unique meta and it clearly changed their perception of the problems of the game but it never seemed bad.
As for Mantic, I don't know much about them, but it seems like their whole thing is that they are ex-GW employees that have just redone GW's games. They also seem to basically live on Kickstarter.
I guess it would mostly depend if their doing their own thing now or if they're still just trying to pick up disgruntled ex GW players that already basically know the games and models.
-
FFG was the Firestorm Focus Group - from what I could gather, it was a former group of beta testers.
With regards to the community ruleset, I think they'll have to be based on the 2.0 set of both systems (Orange book for FSA). We can't really use 2.5 for DW, since most the stats were never really released (except the Egyptians - and compare their drones to the CoA drones), and 3.0 FSA was going to have some significant changes to the ruleset. Doesn't mean things can't be cleaned up - the DW2.5 boarding rules, for example, are a heck of a lot easier to work with compared to 2.0. And I think even the SAS and Carrier rules could also be carried over.
Proabably leave the Fleet Action rules at v2.5, though - those were fully released.
-
Hi everybody,
with Spartan - and their forums - being gone I decided to make this here my new home for everything Firestorm.
I guess we will have to wait for any future developments, but I also am rather pessimistic about an official resurrection of the Spartan game systems. A fan-based version seems more likely.
In the meantime - I bought a dozen or so boxes from an online vendor and noticed that they are running out of stock fast. So, if you think about getting some more ships, get them rather sooner than later. I got mine from www.fantasyladen.de as they had a 20% discount on anything Spartan (until they realized that their closure meant good business for them and they reduced the discount to 10%, but what they have left in stock is still cheaper than on ebay).
Another option I would consider for the future is ordering 3D printed ships from Shapeways. Does anybody know if there are already ships that would fit the scale and the feel of the Firestorm universe available there?
-
There are some alternative aquans on shapeway
-
I emailed spartan to see whether they would sell what they have in stock
Will update if I hear back
-
Hi everybody,
with Spartan - and their forums - being gone I decided to make this here my new home for everything Firestorm.
Welcome aboard Wanjajoral. We have a section of the forum set up already for Firestorm Armada. Thanks for the info on the models!
-
For what it is worth, I was in the DW Focus group and there wasn't any vitriol. For that matter, while there might be a touch of snark here and there on the main DW Forums, overall it was a really well behaved group united by a real enjoyment of the game and overall a solid level of support for Spartan with the occasional touch of understandable frustration at delays and scattered focus with so many systems.
-
After having collected my thoughts for a few days, I've written a blog post discussing the closing of Spartan Games:
http://www.manbattlestations.com/blog/2017/08/27/the-sinking-of-spartan-games/
-
Thanks for your post Ruckdog, you summarize more or less what I feel about SG demice...
Do you know other place/forum where we can find some survivors from the SG forums and community ?
-
Speaking of seeking survivors
Does anyone know who or how to contact the creator of this
http://ohmcz.eu/campaignstats.html
-
Speaking of seeking survivors
Does anyone know who or how to contact the creator of this
http://ohmcz.eu/campaignstats.html
Wow. That's pretty cool! I looked all over that page and couldn't see a way to contact the author. I'm not familiar at all with the Tableau program, that was the first time I'd seen it.
-
There was a thread in the SG forum updating it as it went along
-
Speaking of seeking survivors
Does anyone know who or how to contact the creator of this
http://ohmcz.eu/campaignstats.html
Hi, another DW refugee here. OHM is a member of our Czech community, I can contact him very easily or should I make him to register here as well? :-)
-
Please do invite him
I think the best way to keep the game alive and stay connected is through campaigns such as the one he ran!
-
Ok, I will direct him to this forum.
-
Ok, I will direct him to this forum.
Thanks much! I don't recall seeing this in the old Spartan forums. Would like to know the background.
-
Hey guys, yes I'm still alive and out of lurk mode obviously ;) While the current mood is a bit doom and gloomy in spots online after SG's announcement I was thinking of what we could try and do to help lighten the mood. What do y'all think about hosting a for fun event on the forum? Maybe something with some nice badges or banners like you see on some other hobby forums? Just to show people that the community is still strong and planning on sticking around.
Edit: obviously while blasting it on the various social media sites for the games 8)
-
Why not a mini campaign?
-
Mini campaigns are certainly an option, but I believe Ruckdog has something coming up soon on that already and given the number of games spartan had it's probably best to focus on something simple that everyone can take part in if we do this. I think a paint challenge or a lore(writing) challenge would be something engaging that people from all game systems could participate in, but I'm sure there might be other options we could come up with as well.
-
Mini campaigns are certainly an option, but I believe Ruckdog has something coming up soon on that already and given the number of games spartan had it's probably best to focus on something simple that everyone can take part in if we do this. I think a paint challenge or a lore(writing) challenge would be something engaging that people from all game systems could participate in, but I'm sure there might be other options we could come up with as well.
Those are great ideas. Not sure what this forum platform can support regarding badges, etc--Ruckdog probably knows more about that than I do.
For my part, I may be playing a massive (maybe 2500+ points) DW game on Labor Day. Plus I played a 1250-point Firestorm Armada game yesterday and a 1500-point Halo Fleet Battles game today. And I'm currently painting a Covenant Carrack-class merchant cruiser for Halo Fleet.
So...Long Live Spartan Games!
-
Hi survivors,
I am the one who created this http://ohmcz.eu/campaignstats.html (http://ohmcz.eu/campaignstats.html) website. It is actually just the statisics page who is part of a global campaign http://ohmcz.eu/dw/main.php (http://ohmcz.eu/dw/main.php) .
I am running the technical background. Another guy, Typhus, is writing the narrative (Swiss Financial Times).
We stopped with the campaign about a year ago since people gradually stopped posting their battles and we both were too busy with family stuff to chase anyone.
If there is enough demand, we can probably kick it off again.
-
I was sorry to see this news although never really played their stuff and I have to wonder about halo licence costs and if enough comp gamers where even bothered to make it worth while . as a none halo gamer but a space navel gamer , I was never even tempted (plus I prefer a game to have 4 clear factions min ) its odd that the halo stuff its not motioned in the statement ?
-
I was sorry to see this news although never really played their stuff and I have to wonder about halo licence costs and if enough comp gamers where even bothered to make it worth while . as a none halo gamer but a space navel gamer , I was never even tempted (plus I prefer a game to have 4 clear factions min ) its odd that the halo stuff its not motioned in the statement ?
They wouldn't have mentioned Halo because they were just licensing the IP and they probably have no control over anything that happens to it. They probably also, likely thanks to lawyers, did not want to even imply there was any problems at all with the HALO IP. Such as having someone search for HALO and seeing a business closing notice and think the HALO IP is dying.
There is a very good chance the HALO IP hurt them. It was a gamble because the IP has a lot of potential value but capitalizing on that value is a big unknown. The biggest issue there is that HALO used quite a bit of plastics and plastics have a very high start-up cost and need to move a lot of units before they pay for those up-front costs. Until they sell X units they aren't actually making any money, they're just loosing less with each sale. I don't know the costs exactly, but I've done some research on it previously and the mould production costs on things that size are probably in the $20k-50k range. The main point though is that you have to move a lot of models before you've even paid off the moulds. And if a retailer is selling the product for $40 there is a good chance Spartan gets about $10 of that (distributor marks up about 100% to $20, and retailer marks up 100% on top of that to hit $40). And since they are made out of house, Spartan probably keeps about $5 and pays the person casting it $5. But even at $10 per model and a $10k mould cost it takes 1000 models sold to even break even.
Which is of course why only really big companies tend to make much in plastic. The production costs go down as well as the original mould design costs, but the machinery to even start that is a huge chunk of money too.
Resin, and metal, have very low mould costs, but the cost of each casting is higher, so it is a lot more practical for low volume sales where you have fewer units to cover the start-up costs.
If it costs you $3 worth of resin to cast a model or $0.50 worth of plastic you can clearly see the savings, $2.50 per model cast. But a $10k mould vs a $100 mould means you've got to sell 3960 models before you realize the savings.
But the other side of resin is that you can only go so big with a model before the cost really hurts you. The cube-square law says that as you double in size (length x width) you've quadrupled the volume. So a 2" by 0.5" ship might cost $1 in resign, but a 4"x1" ship costs $4 and 8"x2" model (like the ice maiden) would cost $16. And while the Ice Maiden is a very large chunk of resin, it is not all that big by plastic model standards (see all of the plastic models for sale at a place like Walmart). So you can see why the largest models in HALO are almost impossible to make in resin.
I would note that many of my numbers were made up just to illustrate the point, they are probably "in the general ballpark" based on the research I've done, but it should be clear from the numbers that even small changes would make a big difference in the final math.
-
http://www.spartangames.co.uk/spartan-games-update
" Spartan Games – Update
Written by Spartan Games |
Spartan Games Closure – additional information
First, the Directors would like to start out with a sincere thank you for all the messages we have received expressing sadness at our closure. It is good to hear that our games brought you enjoyment over the years.
Alongside a considerable number of messages of support we have received hundreds of emails with questions. We have made a start at answering them individually but with no remaining staff, this is proving impossible. We would therefore like to answer the most commonly asked questions here.
1. Will I receive the items I ordered from your online store or pledged for in the Dystopian Wars Expansion Kickstarter project?
Alas, for the most part, the answer is no. If you have received an email notifying you that goods were dispatched then they are on their way. Deliveries can take up to two to three weeks in different parts of the world so they may simply not have reached you yet.
However, if your goods have not left our building yet, unfortunately they can’t be sent. We were committed to shipping everything that was in stock and ready to put skeleton staff in place to do so. Unfortunately our accounts have been frozen so we have no way of paying for shipping charges and our landlords require the return of the premises. We discussed this at length today with our advisors and although we explored lots of options, because we know customers have offered to cover postage and even collect goods, unfortunately we couldn’t find a way to make this work.
2. Will stock that is remaining be available for sale?
There is a possibility that it will, although there is limited final product. There are still details to be worked out but we are building a list of email addresses for those who might be interested in purchasing whatever items of products stock we have available. This will include items built for the Kickstarter project. We wish we could send them to you but, as explained above, this won’t be possible due to circumstances beyond our control. If you want to be added to the mailing list, please send an email, if you have not already done so, to spartangames@mail.com with STOCK in the subject line.
3. Who is handling the closure of the company?
This appointment is in progress but it takes time to follow the required procedures. We will advise who this is once the process is complete.
4. Has there been interest in the purchase of assets such as the product lines?
Yes, considerable interest and we are following up on this with our advisors. Parties wishing to purchase assets should email spartangames@mail.com and their email will be acknowledged and their details passed on.
5. Are you answering emails?
As explained here and in previous statements, staff have been made redundant so we have very limited resources to handle emails. We are working through the hundreds we have received. If the emails are about orders, we will not unfortunately, be able to acknowledge them individually and hope this statement explains the status. If they are about individual stock purchases, we will add email address to the mailing list we are building. If they are about purchase of assets, we will acknowledge and pass on the details. If they are about anything else, we will answer where possible. Other email addresses are no longer being monitored and will cease to exist in the coming days and weeks.
Again we would like to express our regret at the impact this closure has had on staff, customers and other trading partners. We are doing all we can to minimise the impact and to do the best that we can under the circumstances. Please bear with us and thank you again for your support at this difficult time."
-
I never got the email, so I guess I'm never seeing those models. Ah well. Sucks, but there are worse things in life, and my pledge wasn't too big. Plus it's not like I don't have a ton of RoF and FSA models that still need painting.
I have a feeling that DW and Firestorm models will be easier to find in the long run than anything from the Halo games, so I have hope that I may be able to pick some of them up later.
-
I have a feeling that DW and Firestorm models will be easier to find in the long run than anything from the Halo games, so I have hope that I may be able to pick some of them up later.
Long run maybe, but at the moment FSA is disappearing of the shelves & online stores. Blink & u miss it :(
-
TBH - I'm not concerned at that at the moment. I think it's a mix of people trying to get stuff before it runs out, and speculators looking to cash in on a limited resource. Wait a couple of months, and I think we might see the current prices drop or at least stabilise. If they don't, I think it'll be an indication that the games were very popular, since the demand will still be there.
TL:DR - if you can't find what you want in a store right now, trying something else for a few months, then look again.
-
when this did not take long but really £200 !!! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Halo-fleet-battles-Autumn-class-heavy-cruiser/232475299937?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D47047%26meid%3D0688d1641275440eaffb0fd512c6361b%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D162668604062&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%253Aea32e089-96d6-11e7-a998-74dbd180c0a1%257Cparentrq%253A705ab11615e0a7e13401b3b9fffe47a2%257Ciid%253A1
-
I have traded in my spartan models, not that I wouldn't love to keep playing spartan games, but I can only afford this hobby if I can build up slow.
-
Spartan closing is sad.
A good thing, that the Firestorm Armada rules are a solid set and really only need some minor tweaking.
The FSA playgroup in our club made some big last orders for all the stuff on the "nice-to-have" list, before it is out of stock, so we are set for long time.
Would be nice if someone takes the IP and sells new (or the current) models. :)
-
I believe the Administrators are taking bids until Friday, so at this rate we will know by October.
-
I am sad at the loss of Spartan Games.
I still have many a miniature to still paint, so let's see how long I can keep painting.
WA
-
I believe the Administrators are taking bids until Friday, so at this rate we will know by October.
I hope someone buys them and resurrect the company
-
It happened with All Quiet on the Martian Front. Ironclad bought them and brought back a lot of their line. It might happen here too!
-
Looks like a couple posters on Dakka are saying the Firestorm IP has been purchased and announcements may be imminent. Grain of salt, of course, but here's hoping for good news! They didn't indicate any news about the other franchises though...
-
Looks like a couple posters on Dakka are saying the Firestorm IP has been purchased and announcements may be imminent. Grain of salt, of course, but here's hoping for good news! They didn't indicate any news about the other franchises though...
This checks with what SeerK (ex-Spartan Linde) knew when I spoke to him during our EDR recording session last night.
For those interested, here is the Dakka thread where it is being discussed:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/735963.page
-
I would have thought DW would have more value
-
£50 k for the entire company seems reasonable considering the debts etc.
-
This checks with what SeerK (ex-Spartan Linde) knew when I spoke to him during our EDR recording session last night.
Looking forward to hearing the new episode. Do you know when you might publish it?
-
£50 k for the entire company seems reasonable considering the debts etc.
No, the bidding was split into 6/7 different lots. Of these, we only know the Firestorm IP definitely went for more than £50k, and presumably significantly more. The rest we do not know, other than at least some got bids. None of that factors in the physical production facilities, which were sold separately.
-
This checks with what SeerK (ex-Spartan Linde) knew when I spoke to him during our EDR recording session last night.
Looking forward to hearing the new episode. Do you know when you might publish it?
I need to finish editing it and then turn it over to the network. If I can get that done today, then it could be live by the end of the week. More likely it will be early next week though.
-
That tallies differently to other accounts I have heard via the grapevine Elessar.
-
So no one bought the whole company minus Halo?
-
It'd be nice if Neil or someone could issue a statement (when purchases are signed) and separate fact from fiction. Guess we just have to wait.
If IP's have been bought, but not molds or ship designs or even rules, then you could see a reissue with *completely* different models.
Nothing I've seen or heard so far indicates a true "rescue" for anything.
-
I'm not holding out any hope for either of the Halo games.
Over on the Halo Fleet and Ground groups on Facebook, one of the group members claimed to have spoken with some 343 reps at PAX West. He caveated this information by saying that nothing is "official", but apparently the 343 folks told him that both Halo games died with Spartan Games. If there are any Halo miniatures games in the future, they won't follow Fleet Battles or Ground Command.
Take that as you will. I'm sure the lawyers have tied up all of it in legal limbo that nobody but other lawyers understands and we'll likely never see either game resurface.
Or maybe I'm just being extremely pessimistic.
-
The Halo games were not listed as being available for purchase. Only:
• firestorm armada and planetfall
• dystopian wars and legion
Note uncharted seas were not listed either
-
I'm not holding out any hope for either of the Halo games.
Over on the Halo Fleet and Ground groups on Facebook, one of the group members claimed to have spoken with some 343 reps at PAX West. He caveated this information by saying that nothing is "official", but apparently the 343 folks told him that both Halo games died with Spartan Games. If there are any Halo miniatures games in the future, they won't follow Fleet Battles or Ground Command.
Take that as you will. I'm sure the lawyers have tied up all of it in legal limbo that nobody but other lawyers understands and we'll likely never see either game resurface.
Or maybe I'm just being extremely pessimistic.
It's not very complicated, licence contract often include a paragraph saying that the licence could not be transfered or sold to any third party... MS have probably do it this way, making any resuraection of Halo completly impossible without a new deal with them...