Man Battlestations Forum
Warcradle Naval Games => Dystopian Wars => Topic started by: Ruckdog on December 06, 2014, 12:36:59 pm
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I've been thinking about how the PE plays in the new edition, especially as I work through painting my backlog of models. It seems to me like the PE are now much tougher, but to be truly competitive they really must rely on the synergy offered by the Speerschleuders and the rest of their Tesla weaponry. On the plus side, it is now quite easy to load up your fleet with Speerschleuders, as a lot of the newer models have them.
Unfortunately, it does seem to me that a player who has mostly older models (the position I find myself in) will be at a major disadvantage unless they can come up with some speershcleud-ing units to add to their force.
So, that really raises two questions:
1. Are Speershcleuders really as important to have as they seem to me?
2. Assuming that they are, what is the best option for adding them to an older fleet?
For the second question, I really like the Speerwulf small flyers, as they are very cost effective both in terms of points and in terms of money to buy. However, I am concerned a little bit about their durability. The Donnerfaust support cruisers seem like a good choice too, as they are durable and not too expensive. The Konigsberg battlecruisers, in addition to being cracking models, seem like they would be a good upgrade to the Donnerfausts as their heavier weapons more than make up for their higher points cost.
What do you guys think?
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You raise many issues that have concerned me, as i inch back into DW with my outdated Prussians. To the point where I'm considering dumping Prussians for a new faction, if I have to buy a ton of new models anyways ...
Speerschleuders look both essential to leveraging Tesla weapons, and also a major PITA to keep straight what bonus is where. It still feels to me like a set of weapon rules that still need redone to a single "point-of-use" mechanic.
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Grabula and I played a land game several weeks ago, I was running Russians vs his PE. He missed my Belgorod Lansdship at least three times with his Speershleuders. Had he hit me, I would have been toast. I lucked out but I did not relish the thought of what he could have done to me it he had hit me with the speers.
Because of what they MIGHT have done to me, speershlueder-armed ships/craft will be among my primary targets next time I fight the PE.
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That's what I'm starting to think about too; anyone who becomes the victim of a 1-2 speerschluder/tesla coil punch is going to make the schluder-firing platforms a priority target! So, that has me thinking about what speerschulder platforms will be the most survivable, and I have to say the Speerwulfs seem a bit too fragile for the attention they would likely get. That has me leaning more towards thinks like the Donnerfausts and BCs, as they have a little more staying power.
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I'm thinking Giant robots with SpeerSchleuters.
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I'm thinking Giant robots with SpeerSchleuters.
That's a thought; the Ausf A Metzger has decent durability. Unfortunately, the thing also seems to be a fire magnet! Every game I've tried using one in, my opponent focuses fire and has it out of action by Turn 2.
Probably the most robust Speerschluder platform out there is the Kaiser Karl heavy BB, but it is a bit pricey in terms of points...I'd almost rather have the two BCs I could get for one Kaiser.
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I can field multiple Metzgers. That can be a solution. Multiplatform can also be useful. Load 'em up with lightning harpoons everywhere. Not all of them can die.
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That's true, although at 150 points a pop I'm not sure how many you can put into a normal sized game without it becoming an issue! A multi-Metzger build will probably be most successful in the higher point games, I think.
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The Prussians are now scary. If they get to RB 1 its big trouble! Now that Tesla anything can link: bombs with turrets and Speerschleuders, Coils, whatever, they can bring a LOT of AD from redoubtable or impervious weapons.
Kill 'em at range band 2-4 or die.
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Well, I think that was always the case...the PE has always been a close-range oriented faction. However, their deadliness has gotten a decided upgrade with how much better Tesla weapons have gotten, and with the addition of the Shceluder weapons 8)
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Delboy just ruled that Tesla bombs can only link with themselves, not other Tesla weapons.
Still, Tesla have come a long way.
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Interesting, although I sort of already thought this was the case? I mean, bombs don't normally link with anything other than other bombs normally, so why would Tesla Bombs be any different? By extension, I wouldn't expect Tesla secondaries to be able to link with Tesla coils ;). As I see it, the whole point of having Tesla Bombs is to be able to take advantage of the Speerschleuder buff and the Lethal Strike benefits. Redoubtable obviously doesn't apply in this case!
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I think you guys might be looking at the Speerschleuder in the wrong light. A model with the Speerschleuder provides a tactical advantage that allows you to dictate your opponents movement or their target. Yes an opponent is only going to get burned once by it but the threat of it is going to remain the next game meaning he is going to use his resources to destroy that model leaving you tactical advantage with the rest of your force. I play another table top game in which I have this giant monster of a unit that no one wants it to get close to there lines and will poor numerous amounts of resources into killing it. Do they ever get to use its great melee ability? Rarely. Do they win the game for me? I would argue yes because that threat is great enough that I know my opponent will have to ignore my other units that by themselves are not scary but left alone can cause enough damage to win. So how does all this tie in with how to play the PE. Well I will leave that up to you, as a KoD player my knowledge is limited but understanding that you can decide which flank your opponent is going to favor or what target he is going to want dead is huge.
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That's a very intriguing argmuent, and an angle I honestly hadn't considered. That bears some thought; I can see this concept working well for PE forces comprised mostly of the older non-Schleuder firing models. However, it is not too hard to come up with a force that will ensure fairly even schleuder coverage across the board.
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I still don't think the old school move in close and board is a bad option for PE, I think it just takes a little more finesse and understand of your opponents. In other words I do not think those using older models are not competitive. That and ships like the Kaiser have been fitted with one that you would already have so it is still playable using pre 2.0 models with a slight twist.
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The only spear-chuckers (I can't spell the other word) in my force are on my Speerwurf and I use them similarly to DarkKnight. For 50-100 points, I can put an agile, hard to hit unit on the board that will draw the enemies attention far beyond the unit's actual damage potential. I also believe that using the Speerwurf, as opposed to larger models, makes more sense. A full unit of 4 can throw an impressive 10 AD at RB 2, which may not crack a dread, but has good odds against a battleship, and sets up the target for the really big AD pools from the squadrons of larger ships. Heck, a 1-2 punch from 4 Speerwurfs and then 5 Arminius is just nasty and can be accomplished early in the game given their speed.
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So it's kind of you have a choice in dealing with these smalls ignoring the massive ships or ignore potentially dangers smalls the are moving around your flank to engage the larger targets. Kind of a dam if you do dam if you don't.