Man Battlestations Forum
Other Naval Games => Space Naval Games => Topic started by: Ryjak on December 23, 2015, 07:02:47 pm
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Most, if not all, of the current Space Armada games don't try to emulate all the interesting tactical movement available in space, like flying backwards. I was wondering if anyone is familiar with a good movement system which captures this, but without requiring a slide rule and a protractor. I'm not interested in doing math in my games.
Off and on, I've been trying to develop something for Firestorm Armada, and while the system I have is functional, it's not exactly easy and smooth. I'm certain someone here has played something good during their wargamming plays.
Thanks in advance.
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but without requiring a slide rule and a protractor. I'm not interested in doing math in my games.
There's the rub... Saganami Tactical Simulator handled vector movement without a slide rule and calculator, but the weird blocks and tables system they had was nearly as bad.
Full Thrust had some good nods to Momentum.
Almost nothing else I can think of uses space physics as either too complicated, or breaking of game balance.
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The rules might be workable with a hex based map and model base, with facing limited to one of the six sides
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The old B5 Wars (not the ACTA game, the other one) had an interesting movement system that allowed ships to change orientation without actually changing direction of movement. Essentially it was as if the ships were on an air hockey table. Not really true 3D movement, but it does add an interesting nod to it.
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The old GDW games (Mayday et al.) used vector counters to keep track of movement. Fairly easy on a hex grid, but I always figured you could do it in a miniature system easy enough. Leave a counter where you were last turn. Measure from there to the mini's current position, and keep going in a straight line for twice that distance. Put a second counter there and adjust for allowed/desired amount/direction of thrust. Place the first counter where the mini currently is, and move the mini to the second counter.
The problem with all this is it only works for small numbers of ships. After that the number of markers to sort through just gets to be too much.
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If you used bases along the lines of drop fleet comander it would be fairly easy to keep track of vectors and facing. The biggest problem I can see is having a simple method of calculating new vectors. The simplest way would be to use an app, I made one up to calculate phase vectors when I did AC theory, by abstracting and limiting the figures you could input three variables and get a move distance at the correct angle.
Edit:
Time scale would also become very important, as you'd have to be able to break your turn down int times of accelerating and coasting if you wanted to perform more complex maneuvers.
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I've started work on this, is anyone up to checking my maths, and maybe recommending a programable calculator app for android?
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Don't know if this is what you're looking for, but Noble Armada (Holistic Design) an old hex-based game, allows for putting thrust in one direction, then rotating your ships while proceeding in the direction chosen before (if no new direction is given by thrusting the engines while in the new orientation).
This is the game I'm talking about: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11689/noble-armada
There's a newer version by Moongose which I know not, so I can't tell if/how rules are similar.
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This could be implemented with the direction of movement marked in n the base while rotating the model to indicate facing
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This could be implemented with the direction of movement marked in n the base while rotating the model to indicate facing
Yeah, actually in NA is recorded by putting a D20 in the hex next to the ship in the direction the ship is moving. Top face recording speed.
So, I suppose this is not what OP was asking for..?
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I've got a ruleset called Starmada that includes a Newtonian movement system - its mostly based around a table that takes into account your vector change and speed change, and converts it into how many movement points it would take to do so. But, yes, it is a Hex-based system.
That said, with the scale of space wargames, one has to wonder - does the movement system already take thrust vectoring and newtonian movement into effect? The distances that the battles are fought at, and the ship's speed, its certainly got to be a question of whether the movement system is abstract enough to allow for that.
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I've got a ruleset called Starmada that includes a Newtonian movement system - its mostly based around a table that takes into account your vector change and speed change, and converts it into how many movement points it would take to do so. But, yes, it is a Hex-based system.
Excuse me if I'm wrong, having only read the novels rather than played the game, but isn't the Starfire drive system somewhat inertialess? In effect, it allows movement that takes mass into account but not fully so ships can maneuver in ways more like the "banking" moves of aircraft, just at speeds determined by their size?
That said, with the scale of space wargames, one has to wonder - does the movement system already take thrust vectoring and newtonian movement into effect? The distances that the battles are fought at, and the ship's speed, its certainly got to be a question of whether the movement system is abstract enough to allow for that.
To some extent, Full Thrust does that - while the Normal Space Drive ( NSD) allows for movement that isn't strictly real-world, it is based on the Newtonian principle of motion continuing unless acted upon ( Using thrust to speed up, slow down, or change direction ), and the inertia of larger ships being harder to overcome for such changes. So in effect, you could say the result on the table of the motion is the sum total of lots of tiny course adjustments that the scale of distance makes too fine to see.
At least, I'm willing to accept it :D
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With proportional engines, mass and associated inertia can be compensated in space unlike wet navy
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Triplanetary
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3637/triplanetary
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1847536/triplanetary-2018-edition
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Triplanetary
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3637/triplanetary
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1847536/triplanetary-2018-edition
I actually just saw Triplanetary on the shelf at one of the local stores here. Is it any good? Have you played it?
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Triplanetary
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3637/triplanetary
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1847536/triplanetary-2018-edition
I actually just saw Triplanetary on the shelf at one of the local stores here. Is it any good? Have you played it?
Yes, I have played it but about 40+ years ago. It uses a hex grid and chinagraph pencils to track courses. We found it great fun and developed a bigger map and campaign rules. These days we have home-built systems using more modern gaming ideas but still use the basic movement system.