Author Topic: DW Submarine Warfare  (Read 2105 times)

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DW Submarine Warfare
« on: February 16, 2015, 12:13:29 pm »
I just picked up both KOB sub boxes. Not looking to add the KOB as a full force, but I do want to have them for "niece" or story based games. Has any one used them, or fought against them? Other that the Vengeance they seem rather meh. With the subs underwater there doesn't seem to be much in the way of the rest of the boxes surviving. Corvettes sure will be way out front, but the destroyers and support cruisers i'm betting wont last too long either. Any way at avoiding losing 70% before being able to use the chainsaw gimmick? Picked up the Raj naval box as well hoping to offset some of the models, yet haven't found just the right mix.

Another question, torps firing underwater still require a 5+ to hit, right? Unless the target is painted. Now is this the same for the Boston or Deathbringer for their guns underwater? Still hitting on 5+?
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Ruckdog

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Re: DW Submarine Warfare
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2015, 09:22:01 pm »
Actually, guns can't be fired underwater. See pg. 58 of the Admiral Edition:

Quote
A Model occupying the Diving Height Band can ONLY use its Concussion Charges,Torpedoes, or a Particle Accelerator.

As for subs...this a topic that is of interest to me, as I just finished one for my PE. It definitely seems like having diving models as the main part of your force will open up the rest of your fleet to a lot of attention from the enemy! Because of that, I always envisioned them as an add-on to a more traditional build.

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Re: DW Submarine Warfare
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 08:17:01 pm »
Ah thanks for clarifying. Figured as much, but wanted to be sure. These weapons are still at full dice correct? Ie not partially blocked?

With the discussion on flanking, perhaps having the non submerged units arriving late could assist...junta thought.

How has the PE sub faired so far for you?
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Re: DW Submarine Warfare
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 08:38:52 pm »
Ah thanks for clarifying. Figured as much, but wanted to be sure. These weapons are still at full dice correct? Ie not partially blocked?

With the discussion on flanking, perhaps having the non submerged units arriving late could assist...junta thought.

How has the PE sub faired so far for you?

Full strength, near as I can tell. As for the Sturmbringer, it hasn't made it to the table yet! :(. Maybe sometime in March.

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Re: DW Submarine Warfare
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 05:14:48 pm »
Played a game with the KOB subs Friday night. Things lined up very last minute to get in a late evening bout. Teamed up with me was the HEC, as we faced off against Russians. Side note here, I'm seeing the RC as possibly the best force to try something new against. They have just about every counter to anything you could dream up. Ala sub hunting units abound. Combine that with the resiliency and wow. Great test.

KOB:

150 Deathbringer Class Large Submarine
150 Vengeance Class Large  Submarine
180 3x Vanguard Class Medium Submarine (Advanced Deployment)
125 5x Valiant Class Small Submarines

HEC:

160 Elysium Class Sky Fortress
225 3x Phoenician Class Medium Scout Flyers (Advanced Deployment)
135 3x Oceanus Class Medium Bombers
75   3x Hades Class Small Aerial Escort Interceptors
       *We messed up and had these off as a single squadron, when they should have been attached the Elysium. Which makes me think of my beloved Freedoms. However, these little guys seem a bit more powerful. Sadly they got taken out in one fell swoop by the Saranks.

>

RC:

205 Kostroma Class Fleet Carrier + 2x Veliky Class Escorts
160 Tunguska Class Large Skyship
160 2x Saransk Class Medium Skyships (Advanced Deployment)
255 3x Tiksi Class Support Cruisers
210 3x Suvorov Class Medium Cruisers
120 4x Nikel Class Heavy Frigates
100 4x Novgorod Class Frigates

So with bringing the full sub list, the thought was to run up and try the chainsaw rams. While this didn't get to happen, it was still a fun learning experience. Running a fully submerged list is just as a gamble as having a 50/50 split it seems. Due to the way deployment worked out, I got locked into the center of the majority of the action. As to be expected when the mission was to kill/capture the Russian Commodore on board the Kostroma. Meanwhile the HEC were mostly off to the flank for the start of the game. Before coming in to take on the Tunguska and assist in attacking the RC fleet carrier.

Of course the true bellwether to a new list is how the mediums perform. In this case I think the Vanguards did rather well. They were able to avoid some DR and CR hits just from having decent armor. When they did get damaged it was a breath of fresh air to know that the Tertiary torpedoes could still hit at full force. A good thing since the tactic of pushing straight ahead full force was in mind. Critical hits are most definitely a fear submarines feel more than other ships. Not only are you losing half of your HP you are also forced to surface, eligible for further attack. If I had locked in some close surface support to them I think this would have helped. Perhaps some cheap corvettes riding along side as a screen... I avoided the pop up, shoot, then "try" and dive afterward as much as I could. When the lead is flying best to keep your head down. Attack Dice wise, they did get some really great rolls that would have been awesome on a medium or small squadron. However, when the target is a Fleet Carrier those rolls are rather meh. Still they were able to chip some paint.

The Vengeance did rather well for itself, while the Valiant did nothing but die. I don't think the Vengeance took any damage, as it cruised along. The Sturginium Boost worked on every go, thankfully, as the ship had to essentially cross to the other side of the board to stay a threat. Due to the lateral motion, instead of straightforward, this again meant no chainsaws. Biggest claim to fame for this model was a Magazine Explosion it dealt to a RC cruiser...from RB 3!!! The squadron needing to get the most replay time before judgment, would have to be the Valiants. A pair of Saransks linked mines right in front of the group, ending three of them off the bat. Broken and depleted they weren't a threat going on. In the future I see them as a type of submerged Destroyer squadron. Sitting just far enough away supplying ranged support. Followed by a secondary wave of boarding.

Definitely going to try these guys out again soon. Some pretty decent dice were able to be thrown, and an average suitability. Also happy how well they worked together at only 600 points! Since the Deathbringer was more or less out of the fight (and a story piece for why the RC and KOB were fighting in the first place), thinking of a way to replace him as either a flying or surface squad. FSA Battlecruiser would be a nice bump, or a couple Australian Monitors. Hmm actually...subs and Aussies sounds pretty interesting. Still I just wanna saw stuff in half!

As I get in more games with them, I'll be sure recap here. Not going to put together a full report, but here are some pics from the game.















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Re: DW Submarine Warfare
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 10:07:21 pm »
Sounds interesting. That is a lot of subs!

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Re: DW Submarine Warfare
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 01:02:27 pm »
How did the HEC do? Did splitting between subs and air help?

I have been looking for an Italian vs. Brit subs battle for a while.
Seems like it was something designers had in mind.
I need to look up generators vs. submerged and Deep Diving. Is it just the same as gunnery?

I have some choices for Pirates, HEC, LoIS, BW, Free Aussies. Or some combo. I will put out some Pirate scenario rules (Aargh!) late tonight. Think non-standard squadron/ BG combos: lower limits on large massive, higher limits on small, mixed squadrons. Maybe some cut and run conditions, all crews regular and worse become Reckless. Pirate commodore rules? Not powerful but interesting maybe forced compliance and prized ships can move, don't drift and don't lose HP. An option to Loot vs. Sabotage., you get the idea.

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Re: DW Submarine Warfare
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2015, 01:08:00 pm »
How did the HEC do? Did splitting between subs and air help?

I have been looking for an Italian vs. Brit subs battle for a while.
Seems like it was something designers had in mind

I'm open to trying KOB subs v Italians. After the game last night against ottomans, it would be nice to try them on another faction. Against Prussians would be an interesting fight as well.

The HEC didn't do to bad. They also were set to the right of the battle, while all the action moved away from them to the opposing flank. Even with decent movement, they were keep out of a good bit of action.

Since we weren't able to make it to the, subsequently closed store, LOKEROZE and I were able to play a late 1500 point game. He being the Ottoman, myself KOB and RAJ. I knew going into it that the to hits of sub torpedoes on skimming targets was going to be rough, but we decided to do it for story reasons. Should have an update to Torchlight soon! Since it was a higher point list, I got to supplement the subs with a decent amount of surface ships. While this did help, subs still took a massive pounding.

Vanguards - Still a pretty decent medium option. Brought two full strength units. Again even with Partial Dice my opponent rolled a ton of 6's so they did suffer a bit. I'd like to see them get a boost to 5 HP in the future. OTTO Destroyers are horrible to face, if you didn't know, so a quad worked one them nicely as they moved to block a Battleship. Saws finally got to meet hull, with a Dominion even joining to ram three of them. Clean through for the subs, while the support didn't fair as well. Also mines weren't to big of an issue, as the Ottomans use air bursting ones. This did backfire when forced to surface under two of them...

Valiant - Much better, if only because they didn't get blown up right off the bat. Enough hits landed on a couple targets to really let them shine. Nothing completely spectacular, though they didn't get to board.

Vengeance - The two air burst mine explosions were because this guy got Crit. Bad timing. The turn before she was primed to do some serious sawing, but more 6's forced the end of that...even from Deep Diving.

Digging these guys. Really fun to set up in advanced forces, and to play over all. Forgot about piercing last game. Won't be doing that again! Effect is pretty awesome at slowing another force down. Now against Isolated Systems, that may be mute. Used a Dominion in each Vanguard squad. This brought the model total to 4 instead of 3. I "think" this is legal given the new rules on attachments. In 1.1 I know that the attaching model replaces something to allow for it to still be in the max Squadron Size. Cool to have the added fire power attached. Was thinking they could help in hitting the skimmers as well. Failures in the fleet were the surface units, but I honestly can't fault them. The dice against all the ships was just palin rough.
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