New 2.5 Info

[Dakkar]

I can't see the Spartan Blog from work, but I could see this:
http://www.gamewire.belloflostsouls.net/dystopian-wars-2-5-explained-part-1/

Best part:

Another new feature of the 2.5 Rules is the Damaging Critical Hit. Sometimes the climb from a Critical Hit to the Double Critical hit is a very long one. So if you exceed the Critical Rating of your target and then the damage rating (but not twice the Critical Rating) you will inflict an extra point of Damage. So for example, when shooting at a DR 6 CR 10 model if I score 16-19 hits it will be a Damaging Critical Hit. So that’s one roll on the Critical Hit table and then an additional damage point on top. 20 or more is a double critical as before

FINALLY! W00t!

Proper editing and rulebook formats is also a good thing. I LOATHE badly written books because I know tech writers are perpetually out of work and looking for freelance stuff. And they'll work cheap. So there's NO EXCUSE for badly written and badly designed professional rules product - an area where Spartan has sinned consistently from the beginning.

New Crit Table sounds easier to deal with, always good.

Not sure what to make of the SAS description... couldn't really follow it.

Now that I have a boatload (equivalent to five a$$tons) of Blazing Sun thanks to McKinstry, I very much look forward to these revisions. I might even try and do DW at GenCon, if this stuff will be live.

[Ruckdog]

What are your specific concerns about SAS? Josh and I got advance copies of the book for our segment on EDR, so I can look things up if you have a question.

In general, the new SAS rules look pretty good to me. Despite what the Spartan blog post says, I think you actually lose some flexibility with carrier models under the new rules, as you can no longer split up their carrier value as you see fit; you are now limited to the wing sizes that are listed in the MAR. Something that wasn't discussed in the blog post is that recon planes no longer exist; its just Torpedo Bombers, Dive Bombers, and Fighters. Along with that, the smallest valid starting SAS size is now 3. On the flip side, carriers can now regenerate completely destroyed SAS, so they are never completely gone from the game. And, these measures should at least help address activation spam issues the game has had.

[markymark1970]

Sounds like a better trade off, slightly reduced flexibility for regeneration.  Can you still field a squad of five?  Five SAS with decent to good rolls could crit (or worse) a battleship or dreadnought.  Bringing it down to four is a bit of a nerf so might have to find softer targets/already damaged large and massives to make a run worth it.

[Ruckdog]

Sounds like a better trade off, slightly reduced flexibility for regeneration.  Can you still field a squad of five?  Five SAS with decent to good rolls could crit (or worse) a battleship or dreadnought.  Bringing it down to four is a bit of a nerf so might have to find softer targets/already damaged large and massives to make a run worth it.

Yes, Strength 5 SAS will still be around, but it appears they will be harder to come by than before. Interestingly, based on the examples in the new PDF (and as discussed on the Spartan blog), it looks like the Carrier Value 6 models will be the main source of the 5-strong SAS.

[Dakkar]

I'm grokking changes a lot more since listening to the EDR episode. Did I hear right that a Carrier could reconstitute a squadron at 3-1? So a 9 hangar Carrier could rebuild a 3-token SAS? in one round?

The Boarding changes sounded good, though the bit with being able to rehome you AP however you want is going to create a small nightmare of tokens and bookkeeping.

[Ruckdog]

I'm grokking changes a lot more since listening to the EDR episode. Did I hear right that a Carrier could reconstitute a squadron at 3-1? So a 9 hangar Carrier could rebuild a 3-token SAS? in one round?

It's better than that, actually. Let's say you have a model with a (Carrier 9, 4/4) MAR. When it deploys, you put down two SAS that contain 4 SAW each. A couple of turns later, suppose on of those SAS gets completely shot down (all 4 SAWs are destroyed). The carrier model can then chose to spend 3 carrier points to re-deploy a new strength 4 SAS, placed within 4" of the carrier model! This new SAS, based on how I'm reading the rules, can still activate that turn. The cost of this Rebuild action is 3 carrier points, no matter how large the SAS is.

The Boarding changes sounded good, though the bit with being able to rehome you AP however you want is going to create a small nightmare of tokens and bookkeeping.

Not any more than you already have to deal with in the 2.0 rules, I think. I suspect any additional time required for the "return to home" portion of boarding will more than be made up for with the time saved by the simplification to the anti-boarding AA/CC and CQB portions. As some have pointed out on the Spartan forums, though, the new rules will tend to make boarding defenses more effective, so I wouldn't be surprised if model AP values go up some in the new ORBATs.

[Sailion]

Well havent read the changes yet, past the thread on main forums. *nods* Do like the sound of the changes as boarding dice beening pooled together in defence was needed. ^^

Example of this before change is when my italian battle cruiser got corvette rushed and boarded in one turn.. it could'nt do anything about it during campign game was playing. Attrition rate was terrible for my fleet italian fleet with that ship XD, the prussian players was playing against where competiting over how many times they could board it and take it home. Aslo day my battleship quad critted a poor cruiser. ^^

Um.. happy about Sas changes too, as recon plans okay, just turn filler felt like who had most to outlast each other.. mmm *nods*. Aslo like the new egpytian models.

[Ruckdog]

Well havent read the changes yet, past the thread on main forums. *nods* Do like the sound of the changes as boarding dice beening pooled together in defence was needed. ^^

Example of this before change is when my italian battle cruiser got corvette rushed and boarded in one turn.. it could'nt do anything about it during campign game was playing. Attrition rate was terrible for my fleet italian fleet with that ship XD, the prussian players was playing against where competiting over how many times they could board it and take it home. Aslo day my battleship quad critted a poor cruiser. ^^

Um.. happy about Sas changes too, as recon plans okay, just turn filler felt like who had most to outlast each other.. mmm *nods*. Aslo like the new egpytian models.

Lots of cool stuff coming, I agree! I have actually gone through and done a detailed comparison of the two books and made a lengthy list of all the changes. I'm holding off on posting it, however, until the physical books and/or the PDF are officially available .

[Sailion]

The Pdf is availble to download on backerkit now RuckDog, just got to read it! heh.. ^.^

[Ruckdog]

Yep! And as promised, here is my Big List of Changes for DW 2.5:

http://www.manbattlestations.com/blog/2017/05/17/dystopian-wars-2-5-changes/

[Sailion]

I'm really excited after having a quick read of the fluff for alliance nations, loved new Denmark fluff.

[Fracas]

Where is this?

[Sailion]

Spartan put up the 2.5 rulebook pdf on Backerkit for the kickstarter backers to download and use, Fracas while sorting out stuff. Only had quick look at the story at the moment and read changes list.. i now miss last time played back in Essex round some friends, Ah.. Dystopian wars BBQ~

One favorite games had was with french GNE fleet vs britanna's, first move game my Magenta's 2 broadside dice go crazy and sink a unshielded cruiser, heh~ *innocent smile*

Thought to date terrified Corvette flanking rushes. XD

[Fracas]

Thanks

Always interested in fluff

[Dakkar]

Finally had a moment to read summary...

Things I like:

-- New Damage rules, including no Crits past double crit
-- Barrage Weapons ignoring shields, with Torps as Barrage. And at the same time, making it up to COA by having energy weapons count as barrage (We'll really need new Martian Rules now too...)
-- This alt rule:
"to use the Bolt Action style of “Blind Activation,” where players put a die or token for each activation in their force into a bag or cup, and blindly draw them out one by one."
-- Smaller and cleaned up SAS, at least so far

Things I don't like:
-- I don't see any changes to how "point defense" style defenses work. Maybe not a problem in DW, but a HUGE problem in Firestorm. So I was hoping for a systemic change.

-- Generators still seem confusing with so many little fiddly rules. I was hoping for a simpler system.
-- In the same vein, MARS overall still seem to work by keyword. I was hoping they might take a page from GW and others where MARs are going away, and full rules appear on the unit cards instead. But we're still in "look-up" mode. Compared to other systems with "all-in-one" unit cards/sheets, that'll make DW feel clunkier and more complicated.

-- I didn't see any major discussion of turning rules? Same templates?