Man Battlestations Forum
Warcradle Naval Games => Dystopian Wars => Topic started by: Ruckdog on April 27, 2018, 08:30:04 pm
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BoW put up a video on YouTube today with an interview from Stuart!
https://youtu.be/yLDLRx2atLQ
The Dystopian Wars discussion starts right around the 18 min mark.
Highlights:
-WC is looking to keep the core gameplay of DW the same, but is working to streamline "maths" where possible. The specific example that was given is that weapon stat profiles will now list a number in parenthesis next to their base AD number, which indicates how many dice that weapon contributes to a link pool. This number would nominally be half of the base number, but doesn't have to be; Stuart mentioned that the number in parenthesis could be larger for certain weapons and/or certain factions to reflect that certain weapon types are better at linking.
-Public Beta for DW 3.0 was re-confirmed for "Summer 2018," and was discussed as being a few months away.
- The plane designs that were shown at salute were mentioned to be for Armored Clash.
-Stuart stated that the rules for the eventual re-release for Dystopian Legions will be compatible with WWX. While the games will be narratively separate, WC's plan is that armies from WWX will be able to face armies from Dystopian Legions with no issues. Sounds like a Warmachine/Hordes situation to me!
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BoW put up a video on YouTube today with an interview from Stuart!
https://youtu.be/yLDLRx2atLQ
The Dystopian Wars discussion starts right around the 18 min mark.
Thanks for that, Ruckdog :)
Highlights:
-WC is looking to keep the core gameplay of DW the same, but is working to streamline "maths" where possible. The specific example that was given is that weapon stat profiles will now list a number in parenthesis next to their base AD number, which indicates how many dice that weapon contributes to a link pool. This number would nominally be half of the base number, but doesn't have to be; Stuart mentioned that the number in parenthesis could be larger for certain weapons and/or certain factions to reflect that certain weapon types are better at linking.
Well, now thatis a good idea! I'm not a great fan of simplifying most math as it's one of the features of gaming that keeps the mind supple and adds educational value as they used to say, however it would make it a faster play and sounds reasonable.
-Public Beta for DW 3.0 was re-confirmed for "Summer 2018," and was discussed as being a few months away.
Yeah, well . . . . Wait and see on that. :)
- The plane designs that were shown at salute were mentioned to be for Armored Clash.
Thought so. Not a problem for me, though and frankly, anything that encourages people to want the smaller ones for DW is a good thing :D
-Stuart stated that the rules for the eventual re-release for Dystopian Legions will be compatible with WWX. While the games will be narratively separate, WC's plan is that armies from WWX will be able to face armies from Dystopian Legions with no issues. Sounds like a Warmachine/Hordes situation to me!
. . . That's going to be a bit of a thorn in some people's sides, TBH.
As for the Covenant situation, I and a few others are not thrilled at all. Apart from that, it seems pretty positive progress is being made :)
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I find these interviews hard to watch. Could someone detail the Covenant situation?
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I find these interviews hard to watch. Could someone detail the Covenant situation?
Agreed. Is Stuart just using a rubbish mic or is the audio being relayed into the studio and re-recorded there? Dislike how there is no structure to find the bits I'm interested in, too.
As for the Covenant situation, the CoA has been replaced with the "Covenant of the Enlightened", seemingly for no reason, because the different branches of the Enlightened don't apparently interact much (Known branches being the Antarcticans, a group called the Troika in Russia and the WWX Enlightened). It seems like they're part of the same faction just so that DW has the Enlightened in it. More dissapointingly, Sturgeon is now an arrogant empire builder, instead of the slightly misguided but well meaning UN/ World Police. Even wierder, apparently WWX's glowing numerically-named rock, RJ-1337 or whatever, came first and was used to find E270 in Antarctica- which totally screws the background of DW being revolutionised by the discovery of a wonder material (And cuts out the role of E270 and its technology as a metaphor/mirror for pre-WWI rapid technological advancement and the results of that when meeting old approaches to warfare, but I think I might be the only one that reads that much into DW).
Also, wow, Warcradle's forums are deeeeead. No-one's even bothered to start a discussion on this.
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There is space there, the Troika is obviously meant to be Markov and mates, Carapathian and his alien blood hasn't entirely supplanted Sturginium. I'm sure there is tweaking to be done, so Team Sturgeon world police can be back, and at least the fluff is hinting that these are different science teams. So plus points. And yes I too miss the rush to WW1 feel I would like to see back... but I fear the multi-polar politics of the WWX version makes that unlikely.
I do miss blogposts. Writing forces a consideration of topics, allows thoughts to be conveyed faster and more efficiently, and information can't be vague or wafflely in a way a chat can be. Maybe its just too early.
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Markov, arch-traitor, and Sturgeon, being in the same faction? That's second only to the idea of Werewolves being in DW in levels of "You're kidding, right?".
Sure, have the Enlightened, but they really shouldn't be under the same umbrella as the Covenant. Now if the CoA remained a separate faction that showed up occasionally to provide a lecture to the Enlightened about their unauthorised and unethical research, that would be a fun interaction I could get behind.
I do feel that a setting should really only have one glowy wonder rock, especially one so intertwined with the backstory as Sturginium.
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I would argue that it is possible the boats are the same, the factions are technically different. Like Royal and Free Aussies.
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The WWX Enlightened won't have boats, if I understood correctly (The interview mentioned some factions that would and wouldn't cross over between WWX and DW e.g. Union would appear in DW, Warrior Nation won't).
I certaintly hope Markov doesn't start using CoA ships, he already has a nation- the RC.
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I would love some Markov pattern CoA style vessels. Like the Russian Medium flier, basically an Icarus made of sheet metal by peasants, so having a Markovite fleet of super science constructed by Russians as an elite fleet in support of Russia would be cool, just as a Carpathian elite Union allied fleet might be interesting.
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I was meaning I'd hate to see Markov directly using CoA ships. RC already has some CoA inspired vessels, such as their large flyer, which looks a lot like the poor old Daedalus.
But that still suggests that they should be separate factions, really.
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As long as the gaming system is properly done and good the weird fluff can be tolerated.
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Stuart did say that the Warrior Nations wont cross over well to the DW, they might to AC though, time will tell.
The Rj is a fuel source from the fluff, so sturgeons airship or what ever was powerrd by that, Sturginium is a ultralight super conductor so quite differrnt things. As for Sturgeons role in the greater world we'll have to wait and see.
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So RJ is the stuff used by Carpathian, which is derived from mind controlling Alien blood? I can see arguments for it happening the other way round, so Sturginium, and Sturgeon's positive 'Science to help Mankind' set up, from which both Markov and Carpathian quit, Carpathian as a secret agent of the Alien hivemind, using his new knowledge to turn the tables and go all out on weaponry to make sure mankind is ready to fight the aliens at any cost, to contrast with Markov as a traitor for the old fashioned reasons of gold and nationalism. Gives three sources of escalation, Sturgeon's gifts to the world twisted into weapons, Markov's arming of the Russian Coalition, turning it from backwater into a modern superpower, and Carpathian's arming of the ACW for the purpose of creating ever more destructive weapons for his private war on alien eggs, but one that threatens the stability of the world.
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The Rj is a fuel source from the fluff, so sturgeons airship or what ever was powerrd by that, Sturginium is a ultralight super conductor so quite differrnt things.
Sturginium also works as a power source, either infused in coal, or as something like a nuclear reactor.
arpathian as a secret agent of the Alien hivemind, using his new knowledge to turn the tables and go all out on weaponry to make sure mankind is ready to fight the aliens at any cost... Carpathian's arming of the ACW for the purpose of creating ever more destructive weapons for his private war on alien eggs, but one that threatens the stability of the world.
I hope that stays out of DW. The more I learn, the more I think merging them is a bad idea. What's wrong with separate backstories anyway?
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Im not sure its blood, more like sap from a tree. Carpathian was never under the control of the hive mind he duped it long enough to steal the seed and take it to the union, there hes working on exploiting it for his purpose, in not read all the fluff yep but i believe hed trying to gain immortality or return a loved one.
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Alien blood sounds a lot more exciting than sap though.....
But seriously the hivemind sounds less tyrannid and controlling than a communal link like the changelings from DS9, which somehow Carpathian managed to hide a part of himself from. So they were connected science types as the not at all ominously named dark council. The Dark Council would want an insider on Sturgeon's mission, so I could easily see Carpathian as said agent, and him willing to use the new tech in the vault to get free and start looking at means to cyborgise and preserve life, and use the new discoveries of the alien blood to make it more destructive than good old reliable Sturginium.
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As for the Covenant situation, the CoA has been replaced with the "Covenant of the Enlightened", seemingly for no reason, because the different branches of the Enlightened don't apparently interact much (Known branches being the Antarcticans, a group called the Troika in Russia and the WWX Enlightened). It seems like they're part of the same faction just so that DW has the Enlightened in it. More dissapointingly, Sturgeon is now an arrogant empire builder, instead of the slightly misguided but well meaning UN/ World Police. Even wierder, apparently WWX's glowing numerically-named rock, RJ-1337 or whatever, came first and was used to find E270 in Antarctica- which totally screws the background of DW being revolutionised by the discovery of a wonder material (And cuts out the role of E270 and its technology as a metaphor/mirror for pre-WWI rapid technological advancement and the results of that when meeting old approaches to warfare, but I think I might be the only one that reads that much into DW).
Which makes a nonsense of Stuart's one-time assertion that for example, E270 was perfectly suited to replace RJ-1337 as a McGuffin in WWX, among other "changes in interpretation between the two worlds". The more you look at it, the more DW is being pounded into the WWX universe, which seems at first glance possible, but the way it's now being done is just . . . irksome. ( I have a feeling that it's all poll and market-research driven; Making Sturgeon a villain even in this "Post-Modernist" nonjudgmental approach fits well with a world where "Scientist' as a word is rated between 'Murderer' and 'Pedophile' in people's minds, and the Flat Earthers are enjoying a renaissance. :( )
Also, wow, Warcradle's forums are deeeeead. No-one's even bothered to start a discussion on this.
Given how Facebook discussions are 'adjusted' ( In similar fashion to Stalinist-era photographs ) by the Warcradle team, one has to wonder about why. Then again, the majority of new players - and there are a surprising number of those, especially on FB - wouldn't know the difference anyway.
I suppose one has to make sacrifices to keep playing when this happens :/
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Im not sure its blood, more like sap from a tree.
In the original fluff, Sturginium/element 270 could combine with many other material to modify their properties in odd ways ( I always though of it as an artificial element/exotic matter like 'wellstone' or vibranium to borrow a couple of other fictional examples ). Possibly the RJ-1337 might be the result of a plant or organism absorbing E270 from the soil, like a sort of Tiberium mutation, and I could live with that one :)
Carpathian was never under the control of the hive mind he duped it long enough to steal the seed and take it to the union, there hes working on exploiting it for his purpose, in not read all the fluff yep but i believe hed trying to gain immortality or return a loved one.
Again, I can live with that; the WWX Enlightened being a malevolent or at least worse breakaway from the CoA.
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Which makes a nonsense of Stuart's one-time assertion that for example, E270 was perfectly suited to replace RJ-1337 as a McGuffin in WWX, among other "changes in interpretation between the two worlds".
It doesn't mean that Stuart was necessarily lying, though; it could also be that at the time, that was the direction they were planning on heading but have since changed their minds on where they want to take the narrative setting for the DA.
Also, wow, Warcradle's forums are deeeeead. No-one's even bothered to start a discussion on this.
Given how Facebook discussions are 'adjusted' ( In similar fashion to Stalinist-era photographs ) by the Warcradle team, one has to wonder about why. Then again, the majority of new players - and there are a surprising number of those, especially on FB - wouldn't know the difference anyway.
I suppose one has to make sacrifices to keep playing when this happens :/
I think its more of a reflection about how forums in general seem less popular than FB and other social media at the moment. While MBS has been a bit busier of late than the WC forums, the traffic here still pales in comparison to what FB sees. I expect that the WC forums will pick up once the game re-launches and gamers start getting boxes stamped with "Find out more at Warcradle.com!" stamped on them ;).
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I think the biggest reason the forums are kind of dead is there isn't much to discuss right now. Fluff is up in the air, rules are being prepared but not much given away, and speculation somewhat discouraged. The rumour mill needs more grist and preferably in more accessible formats to really get their teeth into, probably from the live chat. Some renders, some more concrete answers to mull over.
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Why do you think Sturgeon is a Villan in the Narrative?
Hive mind might have been a bit strong, the hex seeds setup networks of line minded individuals to protect the seeds.
RJ and Sturginium might only be a couple of new elements, there might be others that allow for additional effects.
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The strongest element, necessary for Camouflage generators, is surprise. But you have to be careful, as it's easily ruined.
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Why do you think Sturgeon is a Villan in the Narrative?
Define which narative first :)
If you mean the old Spartan background, he is more a crusading figure than a villain ( Remember, Post modern world? it's all "open to interpretation" anyway ;/ ), who despairs of the powers that be standing in the way of equal opportunity of use of the Chasm technology and E270 instead using it to bolster their own power bases and expand their dominions at the cost of the general population. His forces are taking up arms both to protect their freedom of thought and research in Antarctica and to attempt to disarm the major powers to prevent catastrophic war.
If you mean the new Warcradle narrative, he is part of an organization dedicated to creating a new power elite based upon science, and by "science" they include arguably unethical actions such as coerced labor through medical implants, exploitation of intelligent beings that are not indigenous to Earth, physical modification upon unconsenting volunteers and the use of cadavers as reanimated combatants and toilers; All with the aim of personal aggrandizement and at the expense of the common person who is seen as no more than raw material if not of sufficient "intelligence".
I'd make a remark based on US politics here, that sort of humor though seems to go down badly these days. Rather, Id say its like a WW2 game that decides that Dr. Alexander Fleming and Dr. Josef Mengele are equally moral.
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Why do you think Sturgeon is a Villan in the Narrative?
Define which narative first :)
If you mean the old Spartan background, he is more a crusading figure than a villain ( Remember, Post modern world? it's all "open to interpretation" anyway ;/ ), who despairs of the powers that be standing in the way of equal opportunity of use of the Chasm technology and E270 instead using it to bolster their own power bases and expand their dominions at the cost of the general population. His forces are taking up arms both to protect their freedom of thought and research in Antarctica and to attempt to disarm the major powers to prevent catastrophic war.
If you mean the new Warcradle narrative, he is part of an organization dedicated to creating a new power elite based upon science, and by "science" they include arguably unethical actions such as coerced labor through medical implants, exploitation of intelligent beings that are not indigenous to Earth, physical modification upon unconsenting volunteers and the use of cadavers as reanimated combatants and toilers; All with the aim of personal aggrandizement and at the expense of the common person who is seen as no more than raw material if not of sufficient "intelligence".
I'd make a remark based on US politics here, that sort of humor though seems to go down badly these days. Rather, Id say its like a WW2 game that decides that Dr. Alexander Fleming and Dr. Josef Mengele are equally moral.
I hope that Sturgeon gets more of his old DWars style, as a moral scientist trying to use reason to build a utopia, is more unique to setting since you already have Markov and Carpathian as the sinister, morally and ethically compromised Scientist types. The Warcradle involves all those exploitative elements and repeating it seems redundant. Even if it means that Sturgeon is hopelessly naive and that Drakenburg and co are secretly running the same horrors as Carpathian.
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Perhaps we could use the upcoming Live Q&A to ask if we could get more of the heroic Sturgeon we know and love.
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I hope that Sturgeon gets more of his old DWars style, as a moral scientist trying to use reason to build a utopia, is more unique to setting since you already have Markov and Carpathian as the sinister, morally and ethically compromised Scientist types.
Agree 100% with the first part; I'm less certain of Markov and Carpathian as being equally reprehensible though - Carpathian and the League of Crimson are certainly sinister, While Markov? he's just a utopian scientist like Sturgeon, with a strong nationalistic bias toward Russia as being the model of the future. ( Not necessarily racist or jingoistic nationalism either ). The new fluff makes everyone seem to have some kind of bias to the point of caricature, and while that may be the current interpretation of Steampunk and/or Victorian mores, I think it misses the major points of the era and the genre based upon it. ( I say that because I raised the point over the "Cyber-whale " miniature for the Covenant with Stuart, and he seemed surprised when I pointed out the vegetarian and animal welfare movements started in the 1840s in England, so would that be realistic; We came to a compromise that the whales my well be just wearing wireless headphones and be trained for patrol and combat rather than some zombie thing, at least for the Sturgeon faction. Stuart can be reasonable :) )
Perhaps we could use the upcoming Live Q&A to ask if we could get more of the heroic Sturgeon we know and love.
I do hope that is asked though most FB commenters who might do so have either accepted it or stormed off entirely and gone to Classic 2.5 rules and storyline. If nothing else, hearing Stuart try and tell everyone what they want to hear while saying basically "This is the way we are going" at the same time will be . . . Amusing. :D
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I'll start a thread for potential Q&A questions, might find some that would be answered.
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Agree 100% with the first part; I'm less certain of Markov and Carpathian as being equally reprehensible though - Carpathian and the League of Crimson are certainly sinister, While Markov? he's just a utopian scientist like Sturgeon, with a strong nationalistic bias toward Russia as being the model of the future. ( Not necessarily racist or jingoistic nationalism either ). The new fluff makes everyone seem to have some kind of bias to the point of caricature, and while that may be the current interpretation of Steampunk and/or Victorian mores, I think it misses the major points of the era and the genre based upon it. ( I say that because I raised the point over the "Cyber-whale " miniature for the Covenant with Stuart, and he seemed surprised when I pointed out the vegetarian and animal welfare movements started in the 1840s in England, so would that be realistic; We came to a compromise that the whales my well be just wearing wireless headphones and be trained for patrol and combat rather than some zombie thing, at least for the Sturgeon faction. Stuart can be reasonable :) )
I'm not saying that Markov and Carpathian are equally reprehensible, but they are different kinds of dark mirror to Sturgeon. Carpathian is Sturgeon without the moral code, science for science sake, as a powerful tool that is more important than humans as individuals, hence his willingness to use robo-slaves. Markov is nation above greater good, seeking to impose Russian rule and science as a tool of nationalism. Both contrast with the classic Covenant as a utopian melting pot.
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I think the methods used but the Enlightened will differ based on the individuals, the whales can be seen in a differing fashion, some one might say let's make Robot Whales, while another says nah that's too costly still in going to train real whales then a third person says that'll take to long in going to make zombie whales.
The same way the Union has Creations and Automata.
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I do like that idea of giving space for sub factions using the same hulls but different weapons and ethos to create differing fleets like Spartan managed with the Aussies and made a start on with the Turks.
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It doesn't mean that Stuart was necessarily lying, though; it could also be that at the time, that was the direction they were planning on heading but have since changed their minds on where they want to take the narrative setting for the DA.
Ummmm . . . I never suggested that Stuart was lying, I simply said the statement he made was later proven incorrect or to be false. The implication was indeed that Stuart's information was faulty for one reason or another ( Probably due to the independently observed fact that Weyland Games and by their ownership Warcradle appears to enjoy poor interdepartmental communications and to a similar extent similar customer communications ).
Not the first time my brand of English was at variance with the American usage. ( Remind me to tell you guys about how Old Man Webster's definition of "Demagogue" got me in trouble :D )
I'm not saying that Markov and Carpathian are equally reprehensible, but they are different kinds of dark mirror to Sturgeon.
Yes, now I see what you meant - that's similar to what I was talking about just a touch more detailed and with a "spectrum" approach. Interestign how serving "the greater good" has been interpreted by so many people these days to be seen as some kind of sinister totalitarian agenda in itself, when at the time it first arose in real history, it was considered "Wishy-washy bleeding heart liberalism" :D ( I blame GW . . . I do that a lot :D )
It still leaves us with the League of Crimson as, to quote a rather good Metal Hurlant story line, "A group of moneyed individuals with nothing better to do than f*** with the lawful day-to-day running of the universe" :)
And Asuo has a good point as well :)
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It's something I really enjoyed from the Game of Thrones books was the way a character can be critiqued and explored through various mirrors, and something any decent game should approach. All the factions need a capacity to go to war, yet also different reasons for doing so if possible.
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It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.
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It doesn't mean that Stuart was necessarily lying, though; it could also be that at the time, that was the direction they were planning on heading but have since changed their minds on where they want to take the narrative setting for the DA.
Ummmm . . . I never suggested that Stuart was lying, I simply said the statement he made was later proven incorrect or to be false. The implication was indeed that Stuart's information was faulty for one reason or another ( Probably due to the independently observed fact that Weyland Games and by their ownership Warcradle appears to enjoy poor interdepartmental communications and to a similar extent similar customer communications ).
Not the first time my brand of English was at variance with the American usage. ( Remind me to tell you guys about how Old Man Webster's definition of "Demagogue" got me in trouble :D )
I'm not saying that Markov and Carpathian are equally reprehensible, but they are different kinds of dark mirror to Sturgeon.
Yes, now I see what you meant - that's similar to what I was talking about just a touch more detailed and with a "spectrum" approach. Interestign how serving "the greater good" has been interpreted by so many people these days to be seen as some kind of sinister totalitarian agenda in itself, when at the time it first arose in real history, it was considered "Wishy-washy bleeding heart liberalism" :D ( I blame GW . . . I do that a lot :D )
It still leaves us with the League of Crimson as, to quote a rather good Metal Hurlant story line, "A group of moneyed individuals with nothing better to do than f*** with the lawful day-to-day running of the universe" :)
And Asuo has a good point as well :)
Not lying nor incorrect. If we have released information it will be based upon our direction and understanding of our intent at that time. We have changed our minds about lots of things and then updated our position. That doesn't mean there is some nefarious miscommunication or plans at work. It is still early days and it is very likely we will change our minds again and again as we finesse the games and world's they exist in.
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It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.
I had some similar concerns when Rich said both WWX and DWars were basically the same game and setting. Thankfully we can see from more fluff drafts and the distance between WWX and DWars that WC towers gets that these aren't the same games, and trying to modify fluff and keep some lines distant. The Chinese are no longer run by immortal Chi vampires, that sort of thing.
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I still have those concerns regarding model direction. And I think we should be concerned that Warcradle ever thought DWars was the same as WWX. Airships and Brass, and the year 18XX do not make two settings equivalent.
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It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.
I had some similar concerns when Rich said both WWX and DWars were basically the same game and setting. Thankfully we can see from more fluff drafts and the distance between WWX and DWars that WC towers gets that these aren't the same games, and trying to modify fluff and keep some lines distant. The Chinese are no longer run by immortal Chi vampires, that sort of thing.
Maybe syphoning off Chi was just a way to scare off the outsiders!
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It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.
I had some similar concerns when Rich said both WWX and DWars were basically the same game and setting. Thankfully we can see from more fluff drafts and the distance between WWX and DWars that WC towers gets that these aren't the same games, and trying to modify fluff and keep some lines distant. The Chinese are no longer run by immortal Chi vampires, that sort of thing.
Maybe syphoning off Chi was just a way to scare off the outsiders!
Watch out for the Emperor! His Feng Shui is absolutely deadly!
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What if the Celestial Empire spread the Rumor in order to scare away outsiders and try and keep its own populace in line, along come the Union and the promise of wealth and safety, so off go the Empire workers.
The Empire is in the situation that its populace is now going to help build an opposing Nation, some what annoyed its ruse has backfired the Empire is seeking to get its people back.
Enter the geo political schanigans, work at destabilising the Union and make it no longer an intrest for its people.
At the end of the day what Narrative an individual uses is down to them, Warcradle are providing a world, models and rules what you do with them is up to you.
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I think it was a sensible thing to drop since it was awfully close to some yellow peril and Fu Manchu tropes, so treating China as just another grown up industrialised state makes so much more sense.
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It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.
Hey now, I liked Supreme Commander!
The biotech race with the dinosaurs? Agreed, not so much . . . More the style and lack of a powerful enough PC to run it though.
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That doesn't mean there is some nefarious miscommunication or plans at work.
Hello, Richard. thank you for your comment.
I must point out that in my message, i did not say "nefarious", nor did I say malicious, deliberate or even intentional. Nor was any such implication intended, ironically enough. That is entirely your inference here and I rather take offense at you doing so. It is entirely possible to miscommunicate due to such reasons as incompetence, poor management practices or simple forgetfulness, and that is entirely free of nefariousness or criminal intent. Hanlon's razor applies here is basically what I'm trying to say.
The episode I was referring to ( The independent one ) appears to be a good example; Someone was not given information they should have received, which led to someone being misinformed about a change in company policy. This does not argue that the lack of information was deliberate, intentional, criminal, motivated by sinister agendas or any such. I meant to imply that sometimes it seems from the outside that when the decisions and changes are made within the company, those changes don't always seem to get to people with a need to know in a timely fashion.
I've worked in companies where that has happened; it's rarely ever malicious, it just happens until clear channels are established. :)
And to make myself clear, this entire comment did not mean to imply any skullduggery on anyone's part at Weyland or Warcradle, and please do not infer that I want to sit anyone there down and play a different Nolan sisters record into each of their ears until their head explodes, or anything else you might accuse me of :)
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It's something I really enjoyed from the Game of Thrones books was the way a character can be critiqued and explored through various mirrors, and something any decent game should approach. All the factions need a capacity to go to war, yet also different reasons for doing so if possible.
Excellent point, rulebritannia, and it's probably a great strength as Asuo said to have a background where that can happen which, gieve them their due, Spartan did in fact have. It's also good to hear that Richard has said here publicly that "It is still early days and it is very likely we will change our minds again and again as we finesse the games and world's they exist in. " :) So, there's a good chance that the inconceivably incompatible parts of WWX and DW will not be meshed together to the detriment of both games, after all :)
Meanwhile, I'm busy playing 2.5 and thoroughly enjoying it :) Just wish it wasn't costing me so damn much to fill out my Russian, British and Covenant orbats, though . . . . :/
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That doesn't mean there is some nefarious miscommunication or plans at work.
Hello, Richard. thank you for your comment.
I must point out that in my message, i did not say "nefarious", nor did I say malicious, deliberate or even intentional. Nor was any such implication intended, ironically enough. That is entirely your inference here and I rather take offense at you doing so. It is entirely possible to miscommunicate due to such reasons as incompetence, poor management practices or simple forgetfulness, and that is entirely free of nefariousness or criminal intent. Hanlon's razor applies here is basically what I'm trying to say.
Yeah, I owe you an apology; I completely misunderstood your initial post. Sorry about that!
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Yeah, I owe you an apology; I completely misunderstood your initial post. Sorry about that!
Not a problem, Riuckdog :) It's an inherent problem with the internet and social media, and might even explain the situation under discussion; Things change in real life and the internet moves faster but can be based on older information. And things are often open to interpretation. :)
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It suddenly hit me where I've seen this before- Supreme Commander to Supreme Commander 2.
"Hurf durf, it had giant robots in it, that means it's a balls out stupid setting. GIANT DINOSAURS NOW!", and SupCom was never seen again.
Hey now, I liked Supreme Commander!
The biotech race with the dinosaurs? Agreed, not so much . . . More the style and lack of a powerful enough PC to run it though.
Who didn't like SupCom? It was the RTS so good it ended the genre because nothing could compete. SupCom 2 killed the series itself dead.
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Who didn't like SupCom?
Not many if any, as they say around here :) It was a truly Combined Arms SF RTS and left the C&C franchise in the dust in many ways.
It was the RTS so good it ended the genre because nothing could compete.
Well, if you ignore the hardware limitations of consoles in operating RTS games, the proliferation of consoles over computers in that respect, the popularity of social gaming and the associated rise of Multi-person shooters and co-operatives, then yes, SC may have single handed killed the genre I suppose . . . :-X
SupCom 2 killed the series itself dead.
No argument there. Though one can begin a raucous debate on who self-immolated more spectacularly, SupCom or the C&C franchise - Seriously, C&C4?? Let alone the rhubarb over The Forgotten faction . . . SMH :P
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Well, if you ignore the hardware limitations of consoles in operating RTS games, the proliferation of consoles over computers in that respect, the popularity of social gaming and the associated rise of Multi-person shooters and co-operatives, then yes, SC may have single handed killed the genre I suppose . . . :-X
There is a reason they didn't bother with SupCom: Forged Alliance for consoles, they were holding the game back.
It was a dark time in PC gaming, but in recent years there's been a resurgence... and you'd think an RTS would do well, but the only one to get even moderate positive attention is a glorified tower defence game. C&C, DoW, Planetary Annihilation- all failed. Starcraft II might have done well, but it never gets the positive conversations SupCom does... and any RTS that thinks APM is a valid statistic to follow has failed at the 'Strategy' aspect of Real Time Strategy.
Minimum Hyperbole Guaranteed
But this is getting somewhat off topic...
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But this is getting somewhat off topic...
;D it sure is. But interesting nonetheless, and I agree about APM.
So, back on topic, one of the big discussions I've seen is how everyone seem to hate the bow on the Prussian ship, though the love the rest of that render. One person claimed it's just the way the sketch looks due to "Poor shading". Anyone here have an opinion?
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The initial big WC video had some renders/3D printed models http://mannmomo.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/warcradle-introduce-dystopian-age.html. Perhaps WC could fit a few more of those into the accompanying Blogpost to reduce any misunderstimating of the product.
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So, back on topic, one of the big discussions I've seen is how everyone seem to hate the bow on the Prussian ship, though the love the rest of that render. One person claimed it's just the way the sketch looks due to "Poor shading". Anyone here have an opinion?
Oddly, I have the reverse opinion- I quite like the prow, but the rest of the design seems lacking. It's got that same feeling of not quite fitting into the DW world.
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Oddly, I have the reverse opinion- I quite like the prow, but the rest of the design seems lacking. It's got that same feeling of not quite fitting into the DW world.
I like the prow too. I think the perspective on the drawing is off, which can make it feel wrong without being clear as to why. Uncanny Valley sort of thing.
Having gone back and looked at the Spartan versions of ships and back at the WC concepts closely to pick out what is really different... Well they really aren't that different, they do share a lot more than they are different. It is just that you have to focus on each part of the WC to see it.
They really seem like good designs hidden behind bad drawings. The consistent heavy lines pulls the focus away from the overall design and focuses it on every little detail making the whole thing seem cluttered. Not being able to see the forest for the trees sort of thing.
Going to their site and looking at the art they seem to be all over cell shading, which isn't a bad style, I happen to like it a lot in some games.
The irony of course is that that style is all about "less is more," boil everything down to it's essence and have a few very distinctive features define the whole. But these pictures come off exactly the opposite of that.
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They really seem like good designs hidden behind bad drawings. The consistent heavy lines pulls the focus away from the overall design and focuses it on every little detail making the whole thing seem cluttered. Not being able to see the forest for the trees sort of thing.
You could well be right about that. Maybe just my viewpoint, however I submit that the Spartan Games method of showing the actual renders rather than sketches gave a much better feel of what the finished product would be like - Admittedly, in a few cases it was slightly deceptive as to lines and such ( The League Of Crimson miniatures for one example had some difference between renders and minis ).
Would people agree on that point or not?
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Drawings are concept art, like some concept cars
Renders are preproduction, before manufacturing tunings
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They really seem like good designs hidden behind bad drawings. The consistent heavy lines pulls the focus away from the overall design and focuses it on every little detail making the whole thing seem cluttered. Not being able to see the forest for the trees sort of thing.
You could well be right about that. Maybe just my viewpoint, however I submit that the Spartan Games method of showing the actual renders rather than sketches gave a much better feel of what the finished product would be like - Admittedly, in a few cases it was slightly deceptive as to lines and such ( The League Of Crimson miniatures for one example had some difference between renders and minis ).
Would people agree on that point or not?
Apart from some perspective weirdness (The Descartes render looked chubbier than the real thing, which is incidentally the best looking naval model ever, fact), the renders were pretty accurate to what we actually got.
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Apart from some perspective weirdness (The Descartes render looked chubbier than the real thing, which is incidentally the best looking naval model ever, fact), the renders were pretty accurate to what we actually got.
Indeed they did have only perspective oddities I agree ( Also, the Drunken Fart Class is probably the nicest CoA ship ever , though it's so small compared to other Covenant Battleships - It compares well to a Ruler Class size-wise, however :)
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Also, the Drunken Fart Class is probably the nicest CoA ship ever , though it's so small compared to other Covenant Battleships - It compares well to a Ruler Class size-wise, however :)
I've said it before, and I'll say it again- I think the Give-her-the-D class is a battlecruiser that the CoA naval designers got carried away with.
Warcradle should be aware that that's what they're competing with, in my eyes, so 'okay' looking ships just won't cut it.