Author Topic: MBS DW Fan 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/20/18: FAQ is Live!  (Read 8124 times)

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3050
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
The FAQ has been posted in the 2.5 Player Files in the MBS DW Rules Repository. Here is a direct link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x5dwWKJP6nbpK2pr1IRFUdeFDUNoottP/view?usp=sharing

At this point, I think there has been enough player experience with the new rules to sort out some of the biggest problems and issues with the DW 2.5 rule set. My vision is to start an MBS FAQ/Errata document that will cover the biggest of these issues. I want to get the first version out fairly quickly, within the next few weeks or so by Monday 19 Feb 2018 . However, I'm very much interested in getting feedback from all of you on what should or should not be in it. I've compiled this list from the clarifications that were posted in the official forums and that I've gotten via discussions with the old Spartan team. If you have things to add, post them below and I'll add them to the list so that they make it into the final document.

So far, this is mostly a list of clarifications and errata for the main rule book. There is still the open question of adding some optional rules to correct things like game balance, and I've started a section at the end for that. However, I wanted to focus on the stuff that was clearly incorrect or unclear first before we get into that.

Here is my list so far:

Clarifications

Weapons

Mines - Mines are considered a weapons type, though they are not used in the firing segment. This means that model conditions that would prevent using weapons (such as a submarine that is submerged) are prevented from using mines.

Support Aircraft

CAP - CAP must be comprised of a SAS of fighters taken from the force's local air support. CAP is attached to a parent squadron during deployment at the beginning of the game, and activates with that parent squadron. CAP remains attached until the CAP or parent squadron is completely destroyed. While attached, CAP must remain fighters and cannot be retasked. Attached CAP can only be subject to the Replenish carrier order. If the CAP is completely destroyed, it can be re-launched as an unattached SAS by a friendly carrier. In this event, the SAS is no longer considered CAP (it can not be re-attached to its parent unit) and can be launched as any type of SAS. Likewise, if the parent model that a CAP is attached to is destroyed, it reverts to being a normal SAS and is eligible for the re-tasking carrier order.

CAP and Disorder: The reference on Pg. 105 regarding CAP and Disorder no longer applies.

Re-building Carrier Order: A carrier can only relaunch a SAS if there is a completely destroyed SAS in the player's scrapyard. At no time can a player have more SAS on the field that their force started with at the beginning of the game. Re-built SAS must contain the same number of SAWs as the original SAS, are placed on the board without an activation marker, and may activate as normal the same turn they are re-built in.

Boarding

Squadrons With Multiple Crew Types: If a mixed squadron has multiple crew types, the surviving AP take on the crew quality for the model they are returned to on the boarding consolidation phase. For example, if a squadron has a mix of  2 Aggressive and 2 Regular AP left over from an assault and all 4 of those AP return to a model that initially had the Aggressive crew type (assuming it can take all 4), all of those AP now become Aggressive.

Sabotage: A Sabotage is a single roll on the Focused Critical Hit table.

Movement

Treacherous Terrain Test: The rulebook is missing the rules for conducting a Treacherous Terran Test. The proper rules for this test are: In order to performa  Treacherous Terrain Test, each model rolls a (BLACK) D6 requiring a 4,5, or 6 to pass. Models that FAIL their Trecherous Terrain Test are considered to have Collided with the piece of Terrain in question, and must immediately stop and resolve a collision (page 175).

MARs

25. Raging Fire: Page 161: If this MAR is activated and a (RED) 6 is rolled, place two Raging Fire markers on the Model and roll again. Any further results of a (RED) 6 will result in two additional markers and another roll.

Victory Points

The rulebook is missing the Victory Point (VP) award values. These values are:
-Double VP for any Prized models.
-Half VP for any Slavaged models.*
-Full VP for any Scraped models.
-Full VP for any TAC Cards in your oppoent's Scrapeyard
-Full VP for any Strategic Objective or any other scenario-based achievement
-+25 VP for any Ace shot down in a duel

Note: All numbers in DW are rounded up. If a model's cost ends in 5, the Half VP for that model is rounded  up as well.

Errata

Page 66: The correct size for the Energy Template is 2", not 3".

Page 105: The statement regarding CAP and Disorder no longer applies.

Page 168: The proper results table for the Disruption Generator should be: 1-2=No Effect; 3-5=Target Receives a Generator Offline Critical Effect; 6=Target Receives a Generator Offline Critical Effect and looses 1 AP

Page 175: Ignore the discussion in the elevation bonus rules that contain a reference to the "Altered Silhouette MAR", which doesn't exist anymore.

Page 178: The correct table for Mountain terrain should read: Clear: Aerial (Stratospheric)/Treacherous: Aerial (Obscured)/Impassable: Aerial (Flying/Other)

Page 183: Local Air Support and Combat Air Patrol. The page numbers listed are given for each other. LAS "see page 80 for more" should be see page 86, CAP "see page 86 for more" should be see page 80.

Page 199: The reference to "Strategic Asset (Value)" should state "Strategic Value" instead.

Page 204: The reference to "Strategic Objective (50)" should state "Strategic Value (50)" instead.

Unofficial Rules:

Commodore Abilities

Perfect Plotting Command Trait: This command trait can only be applied to Indirect Fire attacks.

Specialized Weapons

Energy Blast Weapon: Replace the rules for the Energy Blast weapon on pages 133-134 with the following:
•   Energy Blast Weapons can be fired in either the "Safe Mode" or "Overload" firing options.
        o   Safe Mode uses the 2" Energy Blast template.
        o   Overload uses the large blast template.
•   Energy Blasts use a ‘To Hit’ Number of 3, 4, 5 or (RED) 6 regardless of modifiers and are always considered to be Indiscriminate Attacks.
•   All Energy Blasts irrespective of type have the Barrage Munitions Type in addition to any other Energy Weapon special rules.
•   Energy Blasts may only target Models on the Surface Height Level.
•   An Energy Blast Weapon places the appropriate Blast Template centered on an enemy Model within Range and Line of Sight. Any Model touched by the Template is hit at full AD effect.
•    Due to the incredible drain on power that comes from firing an Energy Blast, a model using an Energy Blast Weapon in the Overload firing option suffers a Focused Critical Effect, but not the
        Damage, in the Firing Consolidation step of the activation the Energy Blast Weapon was fired in.

Model Classifications

Repair: Models with the Repair Function can attempt to repair themselves.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 07:37:03 pm by Ruckdog »

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3050
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: MBS DW 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/13/18
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 07:34:35 pm »
Updated 2/13/18:
-Added a "due date" for the first version of the FAQ
-Added some additional clarifications gleaned from the Rules Questions threads on the WC forums.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 06:24:34 pm by Ruckdog »

RuleBritannia

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
  • Number of Times Thanked: 32
    • View Profile
Re: MBS DW 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/13/18
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 03:26:25 am »
Seriously thanks Ruckdog, these look great!

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3050
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: MBS DW 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/19/18
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2018, 06:27:54 pm »
Updated 2/19 with the rules for Engergy Blast weapons and Repair Function vessels.

I've got the draft of the FAQ compiled, and I'm checking with WC to make sure they have no issues with me pushing it live. It will probably get promulgated tomorrow.

RuleBritannia

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
  • Number of Times Thanked: 32
    • View Profile
Re: MBS DW 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/19/18
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2018, 05:55:14 am »
WC have released 2.5 minus the fluff online.  No idea about other changes, but will affect page numbers.

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3050
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: MBS DW 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/19/18
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2018, 12:18:24 pm »
WC have released 2.5 minus the fluff online.  No idea about other changes, but will affect page numbers.

That’s a good point. I’ll make sure to add a note that the page numbers are in reference to the version of the book with the fluff pages that is uploaded to the DW 2.5 rules directory.

Covertwalrus

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Number of Times Thanked: 90
    • View Profile
Re: MBS DW 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/19/18
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2018, 01:31:50 pm »
WC have released 2.5 minus the fluff online.  No idea about other changes, but will affect page numbers.

 That's interesting news. I imagine it will appeal to a lot of people who wanted a streamlined rules set as well as mesh with Warcradle's rewrite of the background; Do you know if it has any addenda as to changes to some of the less workable rules in 2.5?

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3050
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: MBS DW 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/19/18
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 07:19:32 pm »
WC have released 2.5 minus the fluff online.  No idea about other changes, but will affect page numbers.

 That's interesting news. I imagine it will appeal to a lot of people who wanted a streamlined rules set as well as mesh with Warcradle's rewrite of the background; Do you know if it has any addenda as to changes to some of the less workable rules in 2.5?

The 2.5 PDF available on the WC website are the exact same rules as the one I have in the DW 2.5 rules depository here, with all the same typos and omissions. In fact, it looks like the internal page references are for the page count of the original PDF with fluff, so you have things like "See page 145," but there are only 97 pages in the document  :o. That's not too surprising, though; from what WC has said publically and from my discussions with Stuart, they are not putting any great effort towards 2.5 (hence this fan FAQ).

CDR-G

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Number of Times Thanked: 5
    • View Profile
Re: MBS DW Fan 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/20/18: FAQ is Live!
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2018, 12:16:43 am »
I noticed that the Tunguska in the new RC ORBAT has: Hunter (+1).
 In 2.1 it was Hunter Aerial - Primary/secondary (+1)
Let's go with that.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 12:39:40 am by CDR-G »

CDR-G

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Number of Times Thanked: 5
    • View Profile
Re: MBS DW Fan 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/20/18: FAQ is Live!
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2018, 12:38:25 am »
The entropy generator sucks, truly. It needs something, Like -1 DR/CR for the turn if successful- THAT sounds like its description.

Alternatively, Spartan had talked/hinted about modifications to some of these generators/weapons for specific nations in the (never completed) final ORBATS. E.g. LoIS Entropy generators could be: if successful the attacker rolls a die. A result of 1-3  = 1 Corrosion marker, 4-5 = 2 Corrosion markers, 6 = 3 Corrosion markers.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 12:48:08 am by CDR-G »

CDR-G

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Number of Times Thanked: 5
    • View Profile
Re: MBS DW Fan 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/20/18: FAQ is Live!
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 08:18:53 am »
I have a scenario with infantry in trenches, to clarify Area Bombardment (as opposed to a targeted attack) of Infantry in trench would use: Hits on 5-6 (Red) and no benefit from the trench. Correct?
Robot Attacks against infantry: hits affect the Infantry hull points, but do not reduce the AP.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 08:20:43 am by CDR-G »

CDR-G

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Number of Times Thanked: 5
    • View Profile
Re: MBS DW Fan 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/20/18: FAQ is Live!
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2018, 11:06:03 pm »
Another small rules conflict: The KoB Halifax comes with a SAS CAP Squadron. It also has a specialist Group Squadron that includes a Halifax and three Merlins. 2.5 only allows one attached squadron.
Soooo, exception? 

Ruckdog

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3050
  • Number of Times Thanked: 189
  • Dive! Dive!
    • View Profile
    • Man Battlestations!
Re: MBS DW Fan 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/20/18: FAQ is Live!
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2018, 06:13:19 pm »
I have a scenario with infantry in trenches, to clarify Area Bombardment (as opposed to a targeted attack) of Infantry in trench would use: Hits on 5-6 (Red) and no benefit from the trench. Correct?

That would be my interpretation. Being in a Trench grants infantry Rugged Construction (1) and Security Posts (2). Rugged Construction only kicks in when a Targeted attack is being made, and Security Posts (2) only applies during boarding. Hence, no benefit to being in a trench for an Area Bombardment.


Quote
Robot Attacks against infantry: hits affect the Infantry hull points, but do not reduce the AP.

I agree. Robot boarding rules state they only target the HP of what they are boarding. The robot would only be hitting the infantry on a 5, (Blue)6 though.

The entropy generator sucks, truly. It needs something, Like -1 DR/CR for the turn if successful- THAT sounds like its description.

Alternatively, Spartan had talked/hinted about modifications to some of these generators/weapons for specific nations in the (never completed) final ORBATS. E.g. LoIS Entropy generators could be: if successful the attacker rolls a die. A result of 1-3  = 1 Corrosion marker, 4-5 = 2 Corrosion markers, 6 = 3 Corrosion markers.

This is an interesting point. I'll split this off into its own thread for further discussion:

http://www.manbattlestations.com/forum/index.php?topic=1919.0

I noticed that the Tunguska in the new RC ORBAT has: Hunter (+1).
 In 2.1 it was Hunter Aerial - Primary/secondary (+1)
Let's go with that.

Hmmm...I see your point. However, given that this is ORBAT specific, I recommend that you re-post this in the People's Front ORBAT discussion thread:

http://www.manbattlestations.com/forum/index.php?topic=1917.0

StingerTheRaven

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Number of Times Thanked: 2
    • View Profile
Re: MBS DW Fan 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/20/18: FAQ is Live!
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2021, 07:21:15 pm »
About Carrier() being damaged:
Quote from: DW 2.5, Pg. 187
The Carrier Value of a Model is by no means fixed, and can be reduced as the actual Model suffers Damage. This represents the decks of the Model becoming too damaged to allow planes to land, the hangar bays becoming blocked with debris, or the magazines of the Model catching fire!
Okay yeah, that's nice, but the book never defines how this damage works! So, how does it? For instance, a Chui carrier (HP5, Carrier(4, 1x4 Wings)) has taken two damage; what happens to its Carrier rule?

Covertwalrus

  • Lieutenant Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Number of Times Thanked: 90
    • View Profile
Re: MBS DW Fan 2.5 FAQ - Working Thread UPDATED 2/20/18: FAQ is Live!
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2021, 01:29:38 am »

 Our eight player group has house ruled it this way - Carriers take Deck Damage at the same rate as hull damage, up to the maximum Carrier points.
 Deck damages can be repaired the same as any system is repaired, including any bones to repair. So, if a carrier takes three Hull Point Damage in a turn, it has also taken 3 Carrier Deck damage. However, if it rolls three valid Repair rolls, it returns to full Carrier points. This represents crew moving planking around, nailing together broken decks, bringing in sheet steel to cover bomb holes, putting out fires, etc.