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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW Rules and Stats UPDATED 9/11/20
« on: October 18, 2021, 03:52:20 pm »
Working now, thank you!
Have model ships, will game.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW Rules and Stats UPDATED 9/11/20
« on: October 17, 2021, 05:45:28 am »
So I'm still working on a massive lore document for Northstar, but looking up Pacific Cyclone and the Google Drive is now locked. Is there another drive I can get it from?
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD
« on: January 24, 2021, 02:52:38 pm »
Hopefully, they follow firelock and stick a pack of those tokens in every box.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD
« on: January 18, 2021, 05:56:44 pm »
Obviously Ruckdog you are correct that Warcradle doesn't need to acknowledge Spartan cues but it's nice when they acknowledge Spartan existed. But that's a personal beef over a lot of their choices that remind me of the expunging of dead pharaohs to make the present pharaoh look mightier. With Joseph, we know that warcradle were aware of the models because they attempted a cease and desist on him.
I wish that the team at Warcradle was better at PR. There is nothing wrong about discussing this stuff, even if you understand a steampunk game won't be entirely accurate, but the constant attacks on people's mental health for being critical is very unpleasant, which is probably one of the reasons I end up hyper critical because that kind of stuff reduces my benefit of the doubt.
I could live with that, but the fine detail on some of these according to some people are somewhat lacking. And it's been answered with remarks like "the detail has to be exaggerated like with human figures, to make it fun to paint, and in any event accuracy and scale are irrelevant in wargames miniatures" and "if you find yourself obsessing over the realism of wargames figures you should have a word with the nurses about your medication" (The former from FB, the other from a forum post - Which was taken down pretty sharpish, I admit.)
I wish that the team at Warcradle was better at PR. There is nothing wrong about discussing this stuff, even if you understand a steampunk game won't be entirely accurate, but the constant attacks on people's mental health for being critical is very unpleasant, which is probably one of the reasons I end up hyper critical because that kind of stuff reduces my benefit of the doubt.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD
« on: January 17, 2021, 12:13:56 pm »QuoteWith the Canucks I have mixed feelings. I like the response to the Spartan models, but the unnecessary gunk still makes the designs far too busy for me and those mini turrets seem out of place. However, the design borrows a lot from a couple of fan designs and Warcradle make no mention of that heritage which is a big dick move in my book. The command deck borrows heavily from Joseph Hillen/Merlin's designs on thingiverse and elsewhere, and of course the Canadian plate was originated by Dayve Walshe. Considering how hard Warcradle has been coming down on fans and fan projects, to borrow from fan designs and not recognise that fact is pretty disgusting to me.
WRT to the similarities with Merlin's desings...there is definitely a similarity in the basic shapes, but TBH that shape isn't all that complex I have no problem believing that WC arrived at it independently. And while the Canadian design idea was originally created by Dayve, the overall design of the Candadian fleet was presumably acquired as part of the overall Dystopian Wars IP. So, I don't see any wrongs from WC in this area. In fact, I seem to recall Dayve himself gave the design his blessing on FB. I feel like I'm often taking on the role of "WC Apologist" on here, but at the same time I can't abide automatcally assigning the worst possible motives to a company that is, after all, putting in a lot of hard work and money to bring back a game that we all love. Just my $0.02!
Its not about motive, more just a sense of recognition. I remember something similar happening with Disney Star Wars and the use of fan designs. Acknowledging stuff, or at least doing some work to do so just helps build fan connection, rather the constant battle WC seems to be fighting to expunge publicly referencing their inspiration.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD
« on: January 14, 2021, 02:34:24 pm »
As always we fall back on Stuart's quote from when they took over.
Quote
"I think it's important to acknowledge that visually the game is going to embrace and evolve the more outlandish concepts from second edition Dystopian Wars rather than keeping it in the ‘could happen' vibe of the first edition. So more iceberg ships and robot dragons and less WWI German battleships. Our design team, while respectful of influences and inspiration found in the real world, are much more stylistically led rather than continuing the pseudo-historical feel of what went on before. For some that means the designs are going to be going in a direction that is not for them. The ships of the Dystopian Age are not ships you would honestly expect to find in real life (with or without Stirginium), but as playing pieces in a war game we want to make sure they are visually distinctive and exciting. In that regard Dystopian Wars will have much more in common with the design philosophies behind sci-fi and fantasy games like Warmachine than historical games like Flames of War."
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD
« on: January 14, 2021, 10:26:03 am »
I presume that's just the house style, trying to meld the less over the top designs of Spartan with the more stylised WWX designs which are a lot squatter and exaggerated.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD
« on: January 14, 2021, 05:00:43 am »New previews have gone up on FB for two Canadian units: A battlecruiser, and a submersible aircraft carrier (!).
I have to say, I think these look pretty niceQuoteTerritorially, the Dominion of Canada has proven to be the most significant to the Crown. In the years since the end of the Prussian Wars, Canada has grown in importance as an industrial power in its own right, a bulwark against Union northern expansion and strategically located to push against both the awakened Empire and the scheming Commonwealth.
Preferring to operate its naval forces in a more flexible and rapidly deployed nature to the other Dominions, the Canadians focus on speed and ruggedness. Their prows are reinforced to deal with the ice floes that are a common shipping hazard for their deployments.
The submarine is a definite improvement on the ugly as sin 'nautilus' version of the vengeance, though with the way the 3.0 rules stand I can't see how sub carrier is as exciting as Spartan version though easier to stat up.
With the Canucks I have mixed feelings. I like the response to the Spartan models, but the unnecessary gunk still makes the designs far too busy for me and those mini turrets seem out of place. However, the design borrows a lot from a couple of fan designs and Warcradle make no mention of that heritage which is a big dick move in my book. The command deck borrows heavily from Joseph Hillen/Merlin's designs on thingiverse and elsewhere, and of course the Canadian plate was originated by Dayve Walshe. Considering how hard Warcradle has been coming down on fans and fan projects, to borrow from fan designs and not recognise that fact is pretty disgusting to me.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: Change to FB Classic Dystopian Wars And Legions Page
« on: January 13, 2021, 10:06:07 am »
Warcradle seem to have the hang of promoting products, but their idea of community isn't great.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Event Planning Discussion
« on: December 29, 2020, 12:43:37 pm »
Litko has these templates https://www.gamingenhancements.com/naval/iceberg-marker-set
A few tips here http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=340486
A few tips here http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=340486
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Event Planning Discussion
« on: December 29, 2020, 09:49:06 am »
If the narrative in the box is the Markov's escape might be worth thinking about some admiral models and terrain pieces to represent what is going on. Maybe an Antarctican outpost on fire along the ice coast side, to represent the chaos caused by Markov's traitors.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD
« on: December 26, 2020, 11:29:09 am »I know its a consistent feature of Warcradle's vision for the game to separate themselves off from Spartan...
At this point I am unsure why they even purchased Spartan Games. They aren't producing any of the old models, they rewrote the background and they are doing their own designs.
The game they are presenting now is almost entirely unique. Why even use the old name?
It strikes me that they could have produced this entire game and range of minis on their own without purchasing Spartan
Well to be fair certain fleets are borrowing very heavily from the Spartan look like the Russians, Covenant, and French, and certain fleets are referencing Spartan ships but can feel very uncanny valley like the British, Chinese, Japanese, Ottomans (from the British Raj). Only the Prussians are just completely incompatible weirdness, although the Americans are close.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD
« on: December 26, 2020, 04:55:24 am »
I'm going to say something somewhat out of character. I don't hate the Italians. As long as they actually are the greeks. Just as the Ottoman models, which are clearly actually Raj models. With that labelling issue sorted Warcradle may have done something alright, although those command decks could use more character and less genericness.
The Warcradle Prussians have always been a sore point to me. The Prussians seemed to be a pretty popular fleet, and such a radical overhaul is just a dick move. I know its a consistent feature of Warcradle's vision for the game to separate themselves off from Spartan, but it remains a dick move and I hope one they eventually apologise for as a high handed and stupid dick move. The result is something that looks more at home leading the Fire Nation to victory. That is perfectly cromulent but ironically loses the appeal of the near diselpunk advanced sleekness of the Prussians as a contrast to the steampunk weirdness around them. It doesn't do anything for me, and the strategic need for a logistics train at sea is just silly. It crosses my personal threshold for things that are cool and makes sense but are very silly to just very silly in a way Spartan rarely managed outside of Dreadbots. The battleship models have a couple of versions that make sense, but having rear and fore facing fixed cannons is very stupid and I hope whoever allowed that to be a thing feels very silly. I'm sorry to rant, I just feel the Prussians exemplify the worst impulses of a design team that doesn't get and doesn't care for Dystopian Wars as a concept.
The Warcradle Prussians have always been a sore point to me. The Prussians seemed to be a pretty popular fleet, and such a radical overhaul is just a dick move. I know its a consistent feature of Warcradle's vision for the game to separate themselves off from Spartan, but it remains a dick move and I hope one they eventually apologise for as a high handed and stupid dick move. The result is something that looks more at home leading the Fire Nation to victory. That is perfectly cromulent but ironically loses the appeal of the near diselpunk advanced sleekness of the Prussians as a contrast to the steampunk weirdness around them. It doesn't do anything for me, and the strategic need for a logistics train at sea is just silly. It crosses my personal threshold for things that are cool and makes sense but are very silly to just very silly in a way Spartan rarely managed outside of Dreadbots. The battleship models have a couple of versions that make sense, but having rear and fore facing fixed cannons is very stupid and I hope whoever allowed that to be a thing feels very silly. I'm sorry to rant, I just feel the Prussians exemplify the worst impulses of a design team that doesn't get and doesn't care for Dystopian Wars as a concept.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD
« on: December 19, 2020, 06:31:01 am »
I'm not even going to talk much about the fluff. It's exactly as I expected though, given the Thatcherite post-modernist GW mindset of the company; Their Dystopian Age is a crapsack world full of inherent human corruption made worse by Sturginium's powers, while Spartan's Sturginium Age was a positive world climbing to toward Utopia falling into the temptation of Sturginium rather than its promise.
I think for me the fluff has some big problems that emerge from coming awkwardly shoving DWars into the WWX setting
1. The idea of what conflict means I've discussed above with Zac, but at a basic level you don't carry out a secret skirmish war between competing powerful men and women with with toy battleships. Battleships, and battle fleets are major investments and require the infrastructure of a state. Even Spartan's mercenary companies were pushing it until they fleshed out the Italian and covenant fluff. They aren't something that carry out covert ops.
2. The dark cynicism of plots and machinations again doesn't fit a wargame like this. You can talk about unrest at court but I would want to hear more about the naval structures and areas of conflict, not that prince Zog is full of alien brain slugs and Princess Elsa's ice powers are part of a conspiracy by the omniscient council of vagueness.
3. The approach to non-western powers is really unpleasant, just the worst. I get it with gang leaders in the old West, but treating foreign princes as either magical demi-gods powered by nonsensium or senile idiots being manipulated is orientalist nonsense and dehumanising, and even worse doesn't fit the nations they are discussing. The whole Celestian empire and Latin alliance concrete landmass blocs of nations removes the potential for conflict between traditionally belligerent nations and removes agency from historically independent peoples, and is just lazy.
4. Spend some time telling me about how the fleets and commanders operate. Mention some commanders.
5. Why isn't there a war? The Japanese blew up Singapore! You can't just hide that under a rug.
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Dystopian Wars / Re: DW 3.0 Pre-Launch Discussion MEGA THREAD
« on: December 18, 2020, 01:40:37 pm »
There is a hint of an interesting idea with the Covenant having armour that come round and surround them for diving and things, but as things stand they look more cartoonish. The Whale Cruelty battleship is not pleasant.