Author Topic: Taskforce -Initial Thoughts  (Read 1679 times)

Dakkar

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Taskforce -Initial Thoughts
« on: March 15, 2016, 01:33:30 pm »
I got my Relthoza-Sorylian box in the mail last night, and had some time to digest the rules and lists. (Model review to be later)

Movement is a straight port from HALO. While there, have limited Frigates isn't a hassle with the 270' arcs, here I don't see the same arc flexibility on most frigates. So those used to flipping easy 180's with Frigate swarms may be dismayed.
Having your bigger ships limited to ONE 45' turn, still without expanded HALO-style arcs, will also take some getting used to.
If this is the way Firestorm is going, having the Maneuverable MAR on Capital Ships will become HUGE.

Attacks and Defenses are a weird Taskforce-Only thing now. "Red" Attacks encompass all normal primary weapons from FsA, and Shields defend as normal. "Blue" Attacks are all the Secondary Weapons like Torps, Grav, and SRS. And those are ONLY blocked by Point Defense. Only the Terran Cyclic Shield MAR allows Shields versus these, and then only with the Heavy Dice mechanic (6's don't explode).

Ranges are just 3 Bands for all systems - Point Blank (<8"), Effective Range (8-24"), Long Range (24"+, no max)
Determine Attack Strength (total dice to roll) and roll for successes. Roll Defense Dice, subtract from Attack successes. Each Damage level reduces Attack Successes; each Disorder Token reduces Defense Successes, 1-1.

Compare remaining Attack Successes to the target's DR. Whether 1x, 2x, or 3x+ the DR just provides a Modifier for a Roll on the Damage Chart. It's an opposed D6 roll, Attacker cross-reffed against Defender (i.e. a 1 to 7+ Grid, Defnder in column, Attacker results in rows). Attackers want High, Defenders want Low. Upper Left Side of the chart favors mere Disorder Tokens, while lower Right side of the chart favors increased Damage levels (1,2,3 etc). 7x7 is an auto-destruction.

If Damage levels = Targets Hull Points, remove it. No Ship Explosions that I could see.

SRS are just Bombers and Interceptors, and work just like a Direct fire "Blue" weapon - Put the Bomber token on the target within ER (24"), and add up all the Attack Strength. Ships with Interceptors within 24" can throw their Interceptors in Defense (1 Intercept per Turn), simply raising the PD dice rolled. 

Boarding is a little weird, but seems okay. Mainly adds Disorder Tokens.
Weapon MARS tweak dice mechanics, or ignore defenses, or favor Disorder effects (Like Bio-weapons and Cyberweapons)
Cloak still kinda sucks = makes all attacks have Heavy Dice, but does the same to your own attacks, no exceptions. And once dropped, it can't be turned back on. I suppose it helps Relthoza approach into ER or PB without heavy damage.

Little balance points:
-- Terrans have the NASTIEST Torps (8d per ship), but only over 24". And they have NO SRS in the lists so far.
-- Dindrenzi have the biggest direct fire, but its all in the ER band. Almost nothing at Long Range.

Post-Adepticon, I'll be eager to try this out. (Or to play with proxies during). Lots of things I can't form an opinion on until I try them.

Oh, and all the Frigates have the smaller square stands now. If this means I have to re-stand my bajillion Frigates for FsA 3.0, I'll be a bit peeved.
Unlike the temp FsA stats, the new Light Cruisers all seem to work great in Mixed Squadrons in the Taskforce rules.
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Landlubber

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Re: Taskforce -Initial Thoughts
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2016, 02:50:53 pm »
Very interesting. Thanks for the write-up!

Several of us have discussed, in other threads and in person, the seeming amalgamation of Spartan's rules. With stuff in Taskforce being almost a direct port over from Halo: Fleet Battles, I wonder what that means for Firestorm 3.0? And down the road, Dystopian 3.0? I would prefer that the games remain as distinct as possible--which would mean they need to get a little more room between DW and Firestorm Armada, but not at the expense of making Armada a Halo clone.

One of the selling points of Halo right now is that it is NOT Firestorm Armada with different ships. Nothing wrong with Armada, but it's good to have a difference in the two games.

I hope the small flight stands for all frigates/escorts/corvettes goes through to 3.0. I never thought those ships looked right on regular size stands. In DW, small flyers (essentially what those ships are) all  have small flight stands. But that's really just an aesthetic issue for me.

I don't play spiders or dinosaurs, but I'd be happy to run through a few games of this with you after Adepticon.
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Dakkar

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Re: Taskforce -Initial Thoughts
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2016, 04:59:24 pm »
I think Neil is likely leaning towards "HALO-izing" Firestorm, but with Planetfall elements too.
I like the streamline of Damage, though its rapidly becoming akin to old B5 and BFG mechanics as the DR starts to disappear. Essentially in Taskforce, Halo, and Planetfall, DR has become damage Quanta levels that delineate penalties. An important distinction over the continuous Hull-Points till crippled of the other systems.
I think they'll leave all the extra Boarding Action flavor in HALO alone, since that's a keynote in that system, but a footnote in FsA.
And when the full FsA revision is done, it'd be more like HALO feels like a subset of the larger game ;-)

I *really* wish they'd combine Stealth and Cloak, and make it an automatic Heavy Dice effect ala Planetfall.

I wish they had stats for all the faction ships in Taskforce style. It'd be neat to see how RSN translate. :-)

Also, they do a new Org-Chart system, directly porting over the 6 Hex "Helix" structure from Planetfall. The Taskforce starters use a Recon-Group structure, essentially 2 Tier 2 and 2x Tier 3.
But the main fleet is both neat and familiar:
-- Center is a Command Tier 1
-- One Additional Tier 1 above.
-- Two Tier 2's to either side of that
-- Then two Tier 3's to either side.
-- Bottom Hex is Planetary Defenses.

I'd expect that to be a feature of FsA 3.0.
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Quickdraw

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Re: Taskforce -Initial Thoughts
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2016, 07:47:13 pm »
As a new game this sounds like it's a pretty effective little ruleset. I'm liking what they've done with the range bands and damage. It also sounds pretty good the way they have kept the flavor of some of the MARs while still keeping the game simple. Big disappointment in the turning without widening the firing arcs al la halo.
But I will rage-quit if the rules become totally ambiguous... (That's all I have to say about that)

Dakkar

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Re: Taskforce -Initial Thoughts
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2016, 01:49:14 am »
I just re-reviewed the arcs. Terrans, Aquans, and Directorate have tons of 360 arcs. Dinz, Relthoza, and Sorylians are all Fore or P/S. Huge disparity given the movement...
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Ruckdog

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Re: Taskforce -Initial Thoughts
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2016, 07:54:53 am »
Thanks for the summary! I'm not surprised that the rules for Taskforce borrow heavily from Halo and PF, both of those systems play fairly fast, so it only makes sense.

I think it is a little early to say this is where FSA 3.0 is going though...all Spartan has said about that is that it would only be "minor tweaks" to the system.

Dakkar

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Re: Taskforce -Initial Thoughts
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2016, 10:53:20 am »
I think it is a little early to say this is where FSA 3.0 is going though...all Spartan has said about that is that it would only be "minor tweaks" to the system.

Given the move limitations of the HALO system, and the amount of terrain Spartan seems to favor for FsA (but I don't), I'd be shocked if they used the movement for 3.0 without major add-ons.

And I hope they keep the Crit system from FsA. I think as a ship gets blown apart you should ALWAYS start to see system degradations and failures. Just having a Disorder token is a nice summary, but it doesn't convey the wider chaos. And I really dislike systems where Hull Points are whittled away, but the ship fights at full strength til the very last one then boom!
"History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark!"
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Dakkar

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Re: Taskforce -Initial Thoughts
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2016, 09:13:30 am »
I started unpacking the models, so some additional observations and a final word.

The modular ship designs are clever, and I look forward to seeing how they expand through the ranges. Even the frigates have "design space" in the spot where you put the peg, where a heavy frigate expansion bit could be added later.

BUT...
I somehow got this far not realizing there are only TWO Cruisers in the box, and only 5 Frigates, when their squadrons max at 3 and 6 respectively. After all the frustrations with the old cruiser/frigate blisters a few years back, Spartan has done it AGAIN.
Even if they come out with an upgrade pack to add a cruiser, a frigate, and upgrade all three cruisers to the heavier configs, that feels like extra charging me for what should have been an option to begin with. Maybe, yeah, those little extra bits of resin would have jacked the price from $70 closer to $100. But it feels to me like at worst, they'd hit $80 and feel like a bargain.
As it is, I feel for my $70 like I've been shorted.

As an intro box to a new style game, I think most players will feel shorted. I imagine this was aimed at X-WING players and the like. Even though the rule book is a pamphlet, it still has complexities and a clunk factor that might dissuade. For example, I had to look for 3-5 minutes to find what Disorder Tokens do, and its only ONE spot in the book - in Token descriptions, not in the damage, attack, or end-phase sections where the tokens come into play. A new player to paint-it-yourself spaceship games may be annoyed at bad layout like that.
And then, they'll find they've really only been given the MINIMUM options for their $70. And more options for only $53 more, but still with awkward numbers!

@Spartan_Neil - Do you really think only two pieces of flair is enough? Doing the minimum is a GW move, not a Spartan one.

Doubly annoying as an established player - I'm almost always going to want to play the full Armada game, not Taskforce. So the rules, and play bits are essentially meh (even if the acrylic turn templates are extra cool.
And now I have some cruisers and Frigates I can't use right.
I just don't fathom what they were thinking.

So if I had to make a one line summary of Taskforce?
One ship short of a squadron.
"History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark!"
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Quickdraw

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Re: Taskforce -Initial Thoughts
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2016, 09:29:07 am »
Bummer!
That was my first thought when they released the taskforce information.
Why would I buy the starter set with partial squadrons when I can just buy the full squadrons for my chosen race...?
It seems like a bad practice. In the future anyone that does some research will likely steer clear of the starter, and people that don't do some research are going to be bummed when they finally get stuck into the game and realize they can't field full squadrons.

Dakkar

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Re: Taskforce -Initial Thoughts
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2016, 12:38:40 pm »
Slight correction!
There are six of each frigate after all - the 6th of each were in a separate small bag.
So all that's really "missing" is a 3rd of each Cruiser.
At least they do match the box picture.
"History is-a made at night. Character is what you are in the dark!"
-- Lord John Whorfin, Red Lectroid Leader