Author Topic: X-Wing Dice Stats  (Read 2406 times)

Ryjak

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X-Wing Dice Stats
« on: February 01, 2017, 08:59:12 pm »
 I'm not very familiar with X-Wing... is anyone aware of a site/resource that breaks down all the dice math/stats for the various combos of dodge, focus, target lock, etc?

Ruckdog

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Re: X-Wing Dice Stats
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 02:57:15 pm »
Well, as it turns out there is a Wiki for that ;):

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/Dice

Attack Dice Odds

The red attack dice have the following odds of being rolled:
• 3 Hit (37.5% chance)
• 1 Critical Hit (12.5% chance)
• 2 Focus (25% chance)
• 2 Blank (25% chance)

Defense Dice Odds

The green defense dice have the following odds of being rolled:
• 3 Evade (37.5% chance)
• 2 Focus (25% chance)
• 3 Blank (37.5% chance)

Landlubber

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Re: X-Wing Dice Stats
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 10:31:40 pm »
You've obviously never seen me play X-Wing.

I have this uncanny ability to roll all blanks on either attack or defense dice at least once per game. And I'm not talking about a roll of two dice...I mean, three or even four.

Uncanny, I tell ya. It's almost guaranteed when I take Wedge as one of my pilots. It's also almost guaranteed that he'll get shot down first.
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama

Ryjak

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Re: X-Wing Dice Stats
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 06:21:36 am »
That's not what I meant... I figured that out on my own by looking at my X-Wing dice. :P

What I meant, Andy, was has someone broken down the dice math for the interactions of these dice?  For example, if an X-Wing shoots at a Dodging TIE Fighter, what are the odds of doing a point of damage, 2+ damage, or missing completely?  How do the odds change if you spend your Focus on shooting?

Then apply this across the board... I can figure it out on my own, but I don't even know the top end of what's possible.  What's the strongest Attack and Defense in the game?

With this knowledge, I can develop and play-test a system that doesn't use dice at all... because lately I've been asking myself: Why do games need randomization as a core mechanic?  Oddly, what inspired me is "The Lost Fleet", where ships are within weapon range for a fraction of a second, so weapon fire is automated.  It all comes down to human maneuvering of the ships.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 06:27:51 am by Ryjak »

Landlubber

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Re: X-Wing Dice Stats
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 11:19:24 am »
Regarding the randomization as a core mechanic...

For a game like X-Wing, I assume the dice randomization mechanic is there to capture effects that would otherwise slow down game play. You can roll attack dice when you have range and line of sight--but hits aren't guaranteed due to actions by the target pilot, reaction time of the firing pilot, intervening ships, angles of fire, and other things that will affect the laser bolt after it comes out of the cannon. Granted, in X-Wing the defender is also rolling dice, and again I just assume that is an abstract way of capturing all the little things the target pilot might do to avoid getting hit. Plus, the dice roll on both sides could also account for any electronic measures/countermeasures used by either ship.

You could port the same logic over to Firestorm Armada or Halo Fleet Battles, I suppose.

For Dystopian Wars, since the attack dice are often not opposed like they are in X-Wing, I assume the dice roll is a way of accounting for ship movement (both shooter and target), evasive maneuvers by the target, and probably the random chance of the incoming fire hitting a part of the ship that it just can't penetrate.

Now...is any of the above realistic? That's debatable. But since none of these worlds actually exist, I'm willing to give them a pass on the realistic part. :P
"Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six."--Commander Adama

Ruckdog

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Re: X-Wing Dice Stats
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 05:58:41 pm »
Lol, sorry your original post want clear; LMGTFY  ;D.  I found this neat calculator that seems to fit what you are looking for:

http://xwingcalculator.x10host.com/diceuilmmob.html

Not sure what all the character abilities are, but I'm sure those are out there some where.

I look forward to seeing where your ideas for a game with non-random shooting mechanics goes! I'm especially curious to see what other sources of uncertainty you work in to compensate for the removal of the dice-induced randomness .

Ruckdog

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Re: X-Wing Dice Stats
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2017, 06:16:56 pm »
Oh, As for your questing about why games tend to rely on dice-induced randomness...I think a big part of it is that as table-top Admirals we have far more perfect knowledge of our fleet's capabilities, our opponent's fleet's capabilities, and their respective distributions than a "real life" Commander might. This means that outcomes in a tabletop game can be predicted far more reliably than IRL (to the extent that real life applies to giant space craft!), which in turn results in reduced uncertainty. Without that uncertainty, I suspect many tabletop games would lose much of their interest, becoming elaborate versions of tic-tac-toe.

The problem as I see it is that any tabletop game that can be played reasonably fast has to make abstractions in order to model complex interactions. In real life, it's not so much that the outcomes of these interactions are random, it's that there are far too many variables involved that make their outcomes far too difficult to predict with any certainty. In tabletop games, abstractions taken to make the game playable tend to reduce the variables that make events so hard to predict in real life, which has the natural effect of making them more predictable. Thus, in order to keep things interesting it becomes important to find another source of uncertainty, which is often provided by dice rolls but could also be provided by chit draws (like sails of glory) or card draws (like a CCG).

Dakkar

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Re: X-Wing Dice Stats
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2017, 06:42:41 pm »
Oddly, what inspired me is "The Lost Fleet", where ships are within weapon range for a fraction of a second, so weapon fire is automated.  It all comes down to human maneuvering of the ships.

There's a direct moment like this towards the end of the 6th Expanse novel (no spoiler that hey, there's space fights). But the whole encounter/pass is over in a second. But its clear there's a crap shoot aspect to it - even with two completely automated systems (torpedo versus PDC) there are too many random elements for any processor to account for. Something may be more likely, but there will ALWAYS be randomness. And I can say this on a professional level too, working in missile defense.

And don't discount the usual "fog of war" random elements either. If you're intent on removing the random human element altogether, why is it even a game? ;-)
My AI fights your AI reminds me of the Trek episode, A TASTE OF ARMAGEDDON...
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 06:45:00 pm by Dalek Unz »
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Ryjak

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Re: X-Wing Dice Stats
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2017, 11:30:59 pm »
My nephew got me playing Clash Royale, and the only thing random is which 4 of your 8 units are available at any moment.  Everything else is determined by player actions; choices.  And this is considered one of the most competitive games today.  So I'm pretty sure randomness isn't essential to gameplay... particularly since there are plenty of solid games where the only thing random is player choice.

Ryjak

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Re: X-Wing Dice Stats
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2017, 08:54:38 am »
From what I found online, it looks like the maximum Attack is 7 Dice, while the best defense is 5 Dice.  Now to use Ruckdog's link to make a chart of outcomes, and develop a conversion system that's almost as fast as rolling dice.  That's the only real advantage of dice; they turn a complex calculation and turn it into a quick activity.